Author Topic: Using a Pedal Board with my Series II  (Read 847 times)

David Houck

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Using a Pedal Board with my Series II
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2010, 10:10:45 AM »
David; that's an interesting observation.  In my rack, I'm not using front panel inputs (except for the DS-5R), and I don't know if there is a difference between the front panel and rear panel input.  I do recall having to take care in placing it, and everything else, in my signal chain, and going through a lot of trial and error before getting to a place where everything seemed to work well together.
 
The master gain on my SF-2 is set at 10.  Back on October 24 of this year, I posted a description of my signal path here, my post #9763.  Some of the settings have changed, as I tend to tweak my tone a lot, but my path is still the same.

ajdover

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« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2010, 10:19:21 AM »
Guys - thanks for all the suggestions.  I'm going to try them all.  My main concern is that I not lose the biamping feature that I use.  Will advise.
 
Alan

David Houck

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« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2010, 10:22:11 AM »
An instrument preamplifier with 1 MegOhm input impedance is provided with an input jack on the front panel. The instrument preamplifier is automatically connected thru 'normal' springs when no jack is inserted in the line level input on the rear panel. A jumper block inside the unit provides signal amplification of 0 dB, 10 dB, and 20 dB for the preamplifier circuit by selection of feedback resistors. The unit is set for 10 dB amplification when shipped from the factory.
 
Ah!  I see what you were getting at.  I had forgotten that.

ajdover

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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2010, 12:47:54 PM »
Well, I tried what David suggested, and it doesn't work.  Here's what I have right now:
 
From the DS-5R:  Front panel five pin connected to bass, mono (bass) selected.  On the back panel, the bass (mono) out to the in of my tuner.
 
From the Tuner: Output of the tuner to the input on the front of the F1-X.
 
From the F1-X Send:  F1-X send to the input on my Boss tremelo pedal on my board (last pedal in the chain).
 
From the In From Pedals jack on the SPB-8C: connected to the output on my Digitech envelope filter on my board (first pedal in the chain).
 
From the Left Out to Amp on the SPB-8C: connected to the SF-2 Channel A input on the back panel.
 
From the Channel A output on the back of the SF-2: connected to effects loop return on the F1-X.
 
Low Pass and High Pass outs on the F1-X connected to the appropriate inputs on the power amp.
 
I've also tried using the Channel B output as Dave suggested.  Still no joy.
 
I'm about out of ideas and resigned to the fact that I can't use my pedal board with my Series II.  Any other ideas?
 
Thanks,
 
Alan

ajdover

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« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2010, 01:40:32 PM »
OK, I've gotten it to work using the connections suggested by David/Dave.  Now ...
 
I get a horrible noise (white noise, maybe RF interference) when either the high pass on Channel 2 of the SF-2 is selected, or when the bright switch is engaged on the F1-X.  The minute I deselect (turn off the bright switch, switch to band/low pass on the SF-2) the noise goes away.  All of my cables are working, and they're of the best quality (Lava Cable Van Den Hul going from the F1-X to the amp, etc.).  It's not the cables.  Anyone have an idea what the problem might be?
 
Thanks,
 
Alan

pierreyves

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Using a Pedal Board with my Series II
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2010, 01:52:23 PM »
DS5-R mono output => F1-X input => F1-X send => pedal board input => pedalboard output => Lexicon input => lexicon output => return F1-X => mono output => input power amp; output clamped in parallel mode => output A => SWR Golath senior, output B Ampeg 610 HLF

sonicus

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« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2010, 01:52:44 PM »
Hi Alan,
               In some situations I like to just process  the highs directly from the high frequency output  of a crossover ; in your case the high out from  F1-X. You could route just the highs through your pedal board.  At times this is an interesting  variation of spice for the sonic soup .    I think their are many ways that you can use your  SERIES II with this pedal board. I would just continue to experiment until you have found variations that appeal to you .  
 
     Sonic Regards  
       Wolf

ajdover

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« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2010, 01:56:47 PM »
I did some more tinkering.  I tried switching which output jack on the back of the SF-2 I used going tot he effects return loop on the F1-X.  When I used the Channel A out, the problem went away.  I also lost the use of the SF-2.  When I switched back to Channel B out on the SF-2, the SF-2 worked, but I got the noise again.  BTW, when I use the treble knob on the F1-X, the same thing happens.
 
Thoughts?
 
Alan

David Houck

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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2010, 01:59:27 PM »
What I would suggest here is unplugging everything and start building the chain one piece at a time.  To start; go from the bass to the DS-5R, to the F-1X, to the power amp, to the speakers.  Leave everything else out of the chain.
 
If you are still getting noise with this basic chain, start replacing each cable, one at a time, in this basic setup.
 
If no noise in the basic setup, start adding the other pieces one at a time until the noise returns.
 
Let us know what you find.

ajdover

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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2010, 01:59:36 PM »
Pierre-Yves/Wolf,
 
     Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll try them.  But I'm still baffled as to why I've got the noise when I use the high pass/treble switches/treble knob.  All of my cables are good, and I've tried the in/out drill with all the jacks on the SF-2 and F1-X.  Nothing seems to get rid of the noise no matter what I do.
 
Alan

ajdover

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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2010, 02:39:09 PM »
Thanks, Dave, I'll give that a shot.
 
BTW, Pierre-Yves, I really like your new bass - the ebony is beautiful - congratulations.
 
Alan

dfung60

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« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2010, 03:37:28 PM »
Alan -  
 
When you get that screetch it's caused by electrical feedback.  It's exactly the same thing that happens when a microphone feeds back except that it's happening between the effects boxes instead of through the air.  There's too much treble gain when you have the high band boost going, whether on the SF-2 or F-1X.
 
Part of the reason that this comes up is that devices like the SF-2 have a really wide frequency range.  It's much wider than you will hear or use, but when you set the high band eq to boost the highs, it's probably doing so happily and signficantly past 10KHz.  The big boost in the inaudible treble may be overdriving something later in the signal path.
 
The other problem here is that the input and output impedances may not be properly matched.  When they're not matched correctly, some of the output signal will reflect back which can have weird effects on both devices.  
 
So, I'd debug this stepwise and report back.  First, I would try just the pedal board in the effects loop, play with pedal settings and turn the F-1X treble boost to see if the problem is still there. Then, take the pedal board out of the effects loop and try the SF-2 there and see whether you're getting the screech.  It may work with either, or you might identify the problem.
 
I think it's much more likely that the pedalboard will be problematic.  Traditionally, the effects loop level is much higher than instrument level which is one problem (it may make using a dynamic filter challenging).  The other problem is that effects loops are designed with medium impedance, but stompboxes were designed for the higher impedance of the instrument inputs - that will trigger these sorts of feedback problems.
 
One thing that should work would be to move the pedalboard even earlier in the signal chain.  In this case, you'd go  
   1) bass to the DS-5R
   2) DS-5R mono out to tuner in
   3) tuner out to the first device in your pedal board
   4) through the pedal chain
   5) output from the last device in the pedal chain to the SPB-8C left pedal in
   6) left output of SPB-8C to F-1X front panel in
   7) SF-2 living in the F-1X effects loop
   8) biamp outs to the amplifier in
 
The SPB-8C isn't doing much in the signal chain (you could have went from the last pedal to the F-1X), but it is containing and powering the pedals which is a good thing.
 
This would present the pedals with the normal environment that they expect to see, which should solve the feedback problem.
 
Your terminology was a little funny a few posts back.  You referred to the Boss trem pedal as being the last in the chain.  I think it must be the first in the signal chain, otherwise you probably wouldn't be hearing anything.  The bass input is fed to the trem first, then from the trem to the envelope filter, right?  This is just wording in a complicated setup!
 
David Fung

ajdover

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« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2010, 04:04:47 PM »
OK, I've unplugged everything, and rebuilt the signal path, etc.  When I use just the F1-X, everything is fine.  There is something seriously wrong with the Channel B on my SF-2.  Nothing I've tried (new cables, doing the in/out on the jacks and switches, etc.) has worked.  I really don't want to send it back to Alembic for them to take a look at it if I don't have to.  All I know is that when I hook it up as suggested, I get a horrible noise if I leave Channel B in high pass, or activate the treble switch on the F1-X.  If I turn either one of those off, the noise goes away.  Also, the noise gets bad if I turn the treble knob on the F1-X past the 7 position.
 
I'm really at a loss here.  All of my cables are good (I checked all of them).  I've checked every cable on my pedal board (also good).  I've checked all the power supplies (all good).  Short of sending my SF-2 back (or finding a tech here who can help) I don't know what to do.
 
Thoughts?
 
Alan

David Houck

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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2010, 04:24:58 PM »
Take one of your other basses and plug it in the front panel input on the SF-2, then run a cable from channel B output to QSC power amp.  Leave the F-1X and everything else out of the chain.
 
In this setup is the SF-2 still making noise?

elwoodblue

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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2010, 04:45:49 PM »
Lots of good stuff in this thread,
As David mentioned the both the SF-2 and F-1X are capable of produced crazy amounts of treble.  
 I think Mica has mentioned somewhere that flat settings for the F-1X is 2-7-2 (bass,mids,treble)
 
Have you A/B-ed the superfilter channels when it is set in stereo with identical setting on each channel?
 
 I currently run my Exploiter (mono) into my Morley wah > rack tuner >  
> F-1X
> Low pass to SF chan. A
> Highpass to SF chan. B
>> SF outs (stereo) ...to  Lexicon MX400 reverb
>> MX400 outs  to power amp (Low pass to 15 and High pass to a 12)
 
So the SF-2 will work well after the F1-X as well,this way I can tune each cab a little with it's respective channel on the SF-2.
 
BTW...Your doing a great job troubleshooting Alan,