Author Topic: Pu string height  (Read 782 times)

thumbsup

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Pu string height
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2011, 06:41:51 PM »
Holly $!!!,
Pull the MK out at a jam last night and it was unplayable!
Now I'm thinking bout putting a little bow back in the neck and raising string slightly!
I keep it in its case. The room temp has been a little cooler the last couple of weeks.
My Rouge sits right beside the MK and the Rouge is always dependable.
I'm wondering since the MK neck is so much smaller and not like the Rouge 1/2 log neck, if that just makes the MK more sensitive?

s_wood

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Pu string height
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2011, 07:38:40 AM »
Thumbsup:
There are a number of very good posts about truss rod tweaking and the effects of environmental conditions on neck stability scattered throughout the Club. Try starting with the FAQs in the troubleshooting section.  Here's a helpful website http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html
 
A couple of observations: I have found that it is necessary to tweak the truss rods as a function of seasonal humidity changes. Humidity changes that are far more of a problem than temperature changes. If you live in a house with forced air heat and you keep your bass in the house (like you should!) the beginning and end of the heating season will result in huge changes in ambient humidity, and your neck will move a bit. The lower your action and the less relief you use in your setup the more likely you are to see the effects of seasonal humidity swings.
 
Another point: changing string gauges, as you recently did, will have the same effect as tweaking the truss rods.  In most cases, changing to a lighter gauge string will reduce the tension on the neck, just like loosening the truss rods a tad...but you know that...the point is if you change string gauges around the same time as a seasonal humidity swing the neck will move. My guess is that the MK is moving because you changed to a lighter string gauge, but the neck will quickly settle down.  
 
Remember, when adjusting the truss rods 1/2 turn is a HUGE change and 1/4 turn is a lot.  The bass will take at least 6 hours to fully respond to what you do, so don't turn the rods more than 1/4 turn at any one time or you will keep chasing your tail. Make an adjustment and then wait and see if you like the results before you make a second one.  
 
Good luck!

thumbsup

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Pu string height
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2011, 07:23:55 PM »
Thanks Steve
Well we are now getting into spring time mode but in the lower central south of USA it may freeze at any time. And my home is forced central heat/air.And since the weather is so crazy right now one day the heater is on..the next day the air is on!  
I will start out by loosening the rods only a 1/8 turn and hope for the best!
I sure hope it works out cause when the MK is on it is simply a joy to play!

thumbsup

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Pu string height
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2011, 07:53:51 PM »
I checked out the link you posted. very cool.
I believe I made a mistake by adjusting the neck too straight and lowering the strings at the same time.
I really like the Ramp ideal.  Never seen that one before. I wouldn't mind trying a ramp out on my Alembic. Simple install and if you dont like it, easy to remove!  
Wonder if Alembic would make one or might could get local luthier.
It also talked about attack and soft touch technique.
PU height adjustment...good view
 
(Message edited by thumbsup on March 02, 2011)

thumbsup

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Pu string height
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2011, 08:01:35 PM »
Oh  forgot to mention!
The fret buzz was only on frets 5 - 8 on the  
D & G strings. Maybe a reverse bow?  
And the wierd thing was a buzz on the low B only on the 2 fret.
Now given the strings are set to low but makes me wonder if the frets need dressing where buzzing?

s_wood

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Pu string height
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 07:16:36 AM »
The fact that the fret buzz was only on certain frets in the middle of the neck would be consistent with frets that need dressing, but it would also be consistent with strings that are set too low over a neck with no relief. All things be equal (and I know that they never really are) a vibrating string will have the greatest amount of vertical movement towards the middle of the string. I would suggest loosening the truss rod maybe 1/8 of a turn to add just a touch of relief to the neck.  If you still have a buzz, you might want to have a tech check the frets.    
 
By way the way, when I check the relief on my basses I use a capo to hold the strings down at the first fret, and I also use a set of feeler gauges to measure the relief at the 9th fret.  My preference is to have just a touch of relief...about .012 to.013 measured at the 9th fret.  Here's a cool website with a picture of somebody check relief with a set of feeler gauges.
http://www.pittmanguitarrepair.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=8d7ec035-d610-a6a8-6849f496817a9522

mario_farufyno

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Pu string height
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 05:01:06 PM »
I could bet that some frets need to be leveled.
Not just a bass, this is an Alembic!

thumbsup

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Pu string height
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 05:35:51 PM »
Took it to local luthier and he said it needed a litttle relief. Lossened the rods 1/8 turn and raised strings just a bit.
Plays like butter now but I still like strings a little lower.
I asked if the middle frets needed a shave and he said he doubted since it was a fairly new bass.
I know I am looking for perfection but I would like to see how low I can get the MK withoult buzz.
Does anyone know how low in measurements that I should be able to get on a MK with out buzz?

s_wood

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Pu string height
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2011, 04:45:17 PM »
My experience has been that Alembics are capable of insanely low action...so low that most of us play harder than can be accommodated by such low action.
 
FWIW, I set up my basses with just a touch of relief...012-.013 measured at the 9th fret, with the strings at 2/32 - 3/32 on the, measured from the bottom of the string to the top of the 24th fret.  I rarely play basses with action lower than mine, so I guess you would have to subjectively call that low, but not insanely low, action.  YMMV, of course.

bigredbass

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Pu string height
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2011, 09:09:04 PM »
Thumbs, mine are set at around the same numbers that Steve Wood quoted above.  Like most things in life, the first 95% of anything is easy, that last 5% takes a lot of work.
 
Your guy was right, my frets are perfect and IF I get it dead straight and too low, you can get that buzz on a few frets.
 
I've screwed around with this for years now, and I'd offer a few observations from my experience.
 
For years I played with a HIGH action and heavy picks, just frammed 'em to death.  Over time I began to wonder why a bass couldn't play as easily as a really slinky feeling guitar, say like a LP or a Strat.
 
So I set out after a lower action.  I play fingerstyle, a little pick, no slap.  Low action will change your playing, as you just can't dig in without a lot of noise, which I hate.
 
Once you're after very low action, it's important to remember you're dealing in movements of a thousandth of an inch.  THIS is the hard 5%.  If you're really trying to go very low, very small adjustments can feel WAY big.
 
All strings are different from set to set and brand to brand.  IF you are settled on one particular set, you can steadily refine this.  On the other hand, ANY different set (even different guages of the same string, say going from a 45-125 set to a 50-135 set of Nickel XL's for instance) is going to affect the neck differently, as the tension changes.  So if you are in that stage we all go through of a different set of strings every time, and your hands can feel the fine differences, expect to do this a lot until you settle on one particular set.  BTW, different brands in exactly the same guages will still affect the neck differently, once you're down to hunting a very low action.
 
I'm always 'behind' the bass, as Alembics take a day or two to finish settling to new adjustments.  The strength of the these necks with their laminations topped by a thick ebony fingerboard is a great thing.  But you can't adjust it and expect that it's through moving right then. And just like in piloting, your eyes will fool you, and/or most of us don't have the perception to see a difference of a few thousandths of an inch.  In other words, I could not do this without feeler guages and rules.  I can not tell you how many times it felt perfect right now, only to pick it up tomorrow or the next day and it's just not the same.  Pull out the feelers, and then I can see why.  You will chase this until you get a sense of your particular bass' wood, how it reacts, how long it takes to settle out completely.
 
Once you settle on a set and get it like you want, the good news is your hands will 'learn' that feel and it will be much easier to keep that setting and tell if something changes.
 
There is a deliciously aggravating interplay of neck relief and string height that was not easily grasped by me.  I turned my axes into logs any number of times.  I'm certain I haven't mastered it.  But Alembics are the perfect laboratory to learn this:  The adjustable nut, one-piece bridge, the double truss rods, and their enviable build quality allows a lot of experimentation that's easily reversible.  Other basses, you'd be unbolting a neck, or adjusting the bridge saddles separately, or cutting or filling a new nut.  We get to skip all that.
 
And it's all very personal.  We all play differently, and each bass is different in how low it could go action-wise.  I'd easily agree that Alembics probably can adjust for low action easier than most, by design.  
 
There is no right answer or 'factory spec' for setup.  I always think the best way is to develop YOUR setup and then measure it.  Then, you can always adjust YOUR axe to a particular set of numbes (like Steve mentioned above), the you can ALWAYS get your setup, anytime, anywhere, without having to take it to anybody else.
 
J o e y

s_wood

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Pu string height
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2011, 07:07:02 AM »
Great post, Joey!

sonicus

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Pu string height
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2011, 07:13:25 AM »
DITTO !

rustyg61

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Pu string height
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2011, 08:12:18 PM »
Joey is the setup Wizard! His posts have inspired me & given me the knowledge & confidence to do the unthinkable.....put a wrench on my brand new Alembic! I just got my SC Signature Deluxe 11 days ago, & right out of the box it had some string buzz. So I made the rookie mistake of just raising the bridge which put the action around what I was used to with my Jazz Bass. Then I read Joey's post on adjusting the truss rods & nut & realized that I didn't have to settle for the status quo of high action that I have been putting up with on my Jazz Bass to get rid of buzz . I have now joined the elite fraternity of Alembic owners where perfection is not only attainable, it is our birthright! So I went out today & bought feeler guages & am following Joey's instructions to get more relief on my neck. It's in the settling period now, so hopefully by tomorrow night I will have the amazing low action that I have read about here! The only thing that rivals the quality of Alembics is the people who play them! Thanks for your help & wisdom Joey!
Rusty
2011 SCSD
2014 "Blue Orca" Series II Europa
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_blueorca.html

bigredbass

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Pu string height
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2011, 11:09:57 PM »
OK, I promise, Rusty is NOT related to me . . . if he only knew the green-eyed monster I really am.  I stole all of it from Dan Erlewine !
 
J o e y

rustyg61

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Pu string height
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2011, 12:37:28 AM »
Hey, we're all in the Alembic family, right??! Sorry Joey, I didn't mean to embarrass you, just wanted to give you a shout out for all your help! It is MUCH appreciated!
Rusty
2011 SCSD
2014 "Blue Orca" Series II Europa
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_blueorca.html