Author Topic: Setup  (Read 523 times)

alembickoa

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« on: August 29, 2012, 08:25:05 PM »
I am having an interesting time getting the Orion set up. I have never owned a 6er so I am flailing. I was wondering about making a run up to the nest in Santa Rosa. Would that be possible to get the real deal set up? I am not happy with the strings I have, and just not doing well. I figure the folks that created the instrument will know more than I do...

adriaan

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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 11:35:57 PM »
Are you following Joey's rules?

terryc

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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 06:13:33 AM »
Set ups - the golden procedure
1. No distractions at all ie no kids, wife, girlfriends etc.  
2. All tools and equipment at hand
3. Read Joey's post once, read it again then read it again with your bass in front of you
4. Take your time..don't rush this job.
 
Alembics are tough, adjustable instruments but still can be broken if you are reckless and impatient.
No luck involved just patience.

tubeperson

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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 06:27:19 AM »
Terry, I don't think they are tough to adjust, taking time to do it right makes it easy.  In fact, my tech loves adjusting Alembics because they are so easy and flexible.  After reading Joey's post, and this should be required reading other than reading music (heh, heh, heh), I plunged in and found it a pleasure and fairly easy, and believe me, I am not a handy Al from Tool Time type.  Now reading music is not easy (sorry Joey, had to have some fun)!
 
How do we get Joey to make a video to go along with his written work?  I am serious about this!  Joey, Mica, is there anyone out there?

terryc

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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 11:03:49 AM »
tubeperson..I meant they are tough instruments,they can take some punishment..maybe my grammar should have been corrected..oops!
Yes a video would be most helpful indeed

tubeperson

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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2012, 11:08:23 AM »
Terry:
 
Your explanation makes sense to me (thanks for the clarification) and yes, Alembics are rough and rugged, even if we also tend to baby them.  Let's start a thread for joey and Mica to make a set up DVD!!! Moderators, how can we do this?

bigredbass

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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2012, 11:14:49 PM »
I think a video would be a hoot, thought the real Academy Award winner would be a collection of shorts along the way as I taught myself.  You must remember I'm part Sicilian and part Texan, so you don't want to strike a match around my temper on the wrong day !
 
I Turned My Alembic Into A Log, yeah, now there's a working title.  Not quite the alchemy RW and Susan had in mind, I'm sure !
 
Or, to quote Jimmy, 'HAH !'
 
J o e y

bigredbass

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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2012, 11:46:28 PM »
Steve, it's not that hard.
 
Tune your bass to pitch.
 
Hold it by the body (DON'T be a dork and set the butt on the floor and put one finger under the headstock and sight down the fingerboard, wrong way to do this) in a playing (horizontal) position.
 
Look from the tailpiece end down the fingerboard.  The strings, natch, will form a laser-straight line.  If you look, they will cast shadows on the fingerboard.  You should see a slight dip around the middle length of the fingerboard, with the shadows closer to the fingerboard at both ends.  In other words, the strings' shadows should form just the slightest curve along the length of fingerboard and frets.
 
Take that image in your mind and put it together with what your hands are feeling.  
 
Basically, if it's buzzing in the middle, there is not enough relief in the neck, it's too straight.  If it's buzzing at either end, there's too much relief, or the nut or bridge are too low.  If it's one side or the other the bridge and/or nut is low that side.
 
That's a VERY basic primer, but may be enough.
 
I know a six-sting may seem to be more daunting, but set-up is the same regardless of how many strings.
 
The strings basically vibrate in 'jump-rope' patterns, not just side-to-side in a flat plane.  What we're after is to find that 'compromise' between enough relief/string height and what feels best to YOU.  There is no empirically correct, rosetta-stone set of values that work for all basses and all players:  No two axes adjust identically (wood, after all) and no two players have the identical feel they're after.  
 
It takes a little while (well, half a forever in my case) to learn the interplay of relief, string height, and feel.  But Alembics are almost singularly perfect vehicles to learn set up practice:  An adjustable nut, a one piece bridge, and the twin-truss rods are a great lab to teach this to yourself.  Understand that on a basic PBass or most anything else, you have to fill or replace the nut to change height there.  The bridge would have individual height adjustment on each saddle.  The truss rods could even require pulling the neck bolts to get at the truss rod on old-school Fenders.  We get to skip ALL of that.
 
If all else fails, WRITE DOWN how many turns you moved this or that:  That way you can always put it back !
 
And remember to deal in small increments:  Any axe that is already playable is rarely more than half a turn away or a fraction of an inch away from being spot-on, NEVER two or three whole turns on this or that adjustment.
 
As always, I'll cop to stealing all of this from Dan Erlewine's EXCELLENT book, 'The Guitar Player's Repair Guide', available like most good things from Stewart McDonald (www.stewmac.com).  No home should be without it !
 
I learnt this as I got real tired of trying to explain to really good guitar techs WHY I wanted my bass to play like a Les Paul or a Strat, 'who would ever want a bass with low action?'.  Sheeeesh . . . . . who wouldn't ?
 
Believe me, if I can do this, ANYBODY can.
 
J o e y

terryc

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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 03:59:51 AM »
I agree on the ignorant thinking of 'basses should have high action' quote..do guitar techs still think that we actually don't play beyond the 10th or dare I mention the 12th fret??
I once played a F jazz of a friend's of mine, I couldn't play it beyond the 5th, his quote 'you have to dig in to get a good sound' My quote ' You must love wrist pain and RSI!'
Oh yes Joey..I will certainly nominate you for the gold statue!

that_sustain

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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 05:10:17 AM »
My Alembic had a little too much relief when I first got it.  It took a bunch of turns to get it where I like.  None of the wood cracked.  The fingerboard didn't crack and pop up, either.  Also, no lumps/bumps formed on the back of the neck.
 
Should I be concerned?  The bass seems fine.  God I hope I didn't screw it up in some way.

tubeperson

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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 06:42:55 AM »
Hello Joey!
 
I love your sense of humor, and by the way how is pesto sauce with Armadillo's, fried up?
 
Seriously, since I was very averse to setting up any instrument, yet your post freed up my thinking, I expanded my tool set.  Beyond my stubby fingers (and gut of course), and living the reality that you described, I purchased a rule that is used to measure fretted fretboards for straigtness, for both 34 inch and 35 inch scales.  This allows me to place this Straight edge over my fretboard, and adjust for a flat, no relief setup.  Alembics can actually handle no relief, they are built to accommodate this.  After I achieve a flat fretboard, if I feel the need, then I apply slight relief.  I can get very low action, very fast playing surface, and less tiresome hands.  It does require the John Entwhistle delicate touch, but you can always practice a light touch on the woman/mate of your choice.  This tool is for sale at Stewart MacDonald, or sometimes I see it listed on evil bay. Mine is reversible so one side is for 34 inch scale, and the other is for 35 inch scale.  It really works.  Now let's talk about adjusting knobs.  Who's knobs is up to you Joey!  Abbodanza!
 
I also state that the Guitar Adjustment book sold at Stew Mac is required reading and an excellent reference.  Of course, that involves reading!! I still want that video Mica and Joey!!!!!!!  When Erik is old enough, he can star in it as well!

terryc

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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2012, 09:41:43 AM »
Here is how good they are...it is now 5.38pm UK time, I am gigging tonight and I haven't touched the MK in anger for a week, the weather has turned slightly cold here in the past few days and I thought I would just run a few notes over the fretboard...slight buzz I detected. Out came the spanner(wrench for you USA guys!) Two very small turns..waited and lo and behold..perfect action again. If Alembic made beer, it would most probably be the best in the world..I rest my case!

lbpesq

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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2012, 01:34:33 PM »
If Alembic made beer, it would most probably be the best in the world..I rest my case!
 
Yea, but you guys across the pond would have to drink it warm ... Lucas refrigerators!
 
hehehehe
 
Bill, tgo

that_sustain

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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2012, 03:34:10 PM »
Looks like I'm already out of the club.

lbpesq

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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2012, 05:07:23 PM »
No way Daniel.  The club is like the Hotel California.  You can check out, but you can never leave!  Once you've played one of these, you're hooked for life.  (If only the first one was free - lol)
 
Bill, tgo