Author Topic: Buzzing sounds with my bass  (Read 872 times)

neyman

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Buzzing sounds with my bass
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2012, 03:35:49 PM »
Good point!  The noise I'm hearing sounds like someone touching the end of a 1/4 jack that is plugged into a live amp, or a short in an instrument cable.  
 
It isn't a directional single coil hum I'm hearing. The bass is very quiet in that respect.
 
I'll try your test and post the results.

jazzyvee

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Buzzing sounds with my bass
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2012, 04:28:56 PM »
I'm hearing the same sound as you neyman. If I use the jack to the amp from the bass just using the batteries all is quiet.
 
I will try your test tomorrow Mica and post here what the result is.  
 
Jazzyvee
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neyman

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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 06:38:27 PM »
Followed Mica's directions. No noise, just good bass sounds. Tried both power supplies and both cables.

mica

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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2012, 06:47:03 PM »
Did you play as long as three sets yet?

neyman

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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2012, 07:27:41 PM »
Hah! There' s the rub. I'll have to wait til the weekend to try that.

jazzyvee

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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2012, 07:59:22 AM »
Hi Mica, I've tried your test and have the following results.
 
What I hear from the DS-5 output sounds like when you put your finger on the end of a jack lead that is plugged into an amp input.  When the jack is put into the bass in the manner you described above, nothing changes, the hum is still there.  
Even with the PSU turned off and no mains supply to the unit the hum is still present in the output signal if the DS-5 cable is connected to the bass.  
 
Using battery only and jack lead only, the sound is bright and clean.
 
Something else I noticed by accident but not sure if there is any relevance to the current problem is this.  
 
Ignore the noise for a moment. When the output from the DS-5 is using the Bass output to my amp and my bass has just the bass pickup turned on, the volume of bass signal is twice as loud when the DS-5 is switched to stereo than when it is switched to Mono.  When this is repeated the other way round with the treble pickup switched on, on the bass and the DS-5 output taken from the treble socket, the volume is the same whichever position the Stereo/Mono switch is active.  
 
 
 
Jazzyvee
 
:-(
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jazzyvee

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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 10:16:17 AM »
More confusion. I was doing some practice today. At the start of my session the buzzing was as normal.  
About 2 hours later everything was silent.
 
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

dfung60

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Buzzing sounds with my bass
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 01:09:37 PM »
I think neyman and jazzyvee are actually seeing two different problems here.
 
Neyman, if this noise problem occurs somewhat repeatedly after the bass has been in use for some time, that might actually be a problem with one of the preamps overheating.  They don't draw much power and shouldn't get hot to where it affects the sound, but it's not impossible.  The interesting thing for you to check is to look at the quality of output from your DS-5.  If you can read DC volts between pins 4 and 5 (V+ and V-) you should see between 30-40 volts.  If it's more than that, that may be the problem.  I think this is unlikely to be the problem if your equipment has no mods, but with a homemade unit, or a unit operating with a different line voltage than it was made for, this may be a problem.  The easiest way to test this is to open the DS-5 and trace back the wires that connect to pins 4 and 5.  While you're there, you can also test to see if you have any AC voltage - it should be 0, even on the most sensitive range of your voltmeter.  
 
If the voltage is too high on V+/V-, then you would want to take a look at the transformer to make sure it's the right part.
 
If the supply voltage to the bass it too high or noisy, then the preamps may overheat or show other problems.  Unlike an overheating power amp, they will probably return to normal seconds after you unplug the power supply, which is why a quick change to the 1/4 plug (an 18V power) seems to be an immediate fix.
 
You might also check to make sure that that 20K resistors that sum the individual outputs to mono are both present.  If you connect the outputs directly, this shorts out the internal preamps which would be another condition that could cause high power draw (in this case, it's more likely that you'll get no output at all).
 
The classic way to test this problem is to wait until the problem is occuring (it may not happen when you're not actually playing the bass, although that's an interesting test too).  Do this with the backplate that has the EQ board off the bass.  When the humming is happening, you want to shoot the three preamp chips with a can of cold spray or even just one of those canned air bottles.  If the hum goes away when you spray the chip (do each one separately), then this is the chip that's causing the hum.  But the problem is more likely to be the power supply than the preamps, I think.
 
Jazzyvee, I think you're more likely to be suffering from a bad cable or bad connector.  You've only got noise when the audio is travelling through the 5-pin cable, so I think this is much more suspect.  I would also check those 20K summing resistors to make sure they're properly in place.  A problem there might explain what you're seeing with the Stereo/Mono switch.
 
The Alembic stuff is quite different than what most techs would have seen in the wild, and rare enough that they have nothing to compare it to.  If you work with active EMGs (which also have individual preamps in the pickups), you don't need the summing resistors, so they might have changed the values or left them out when servicing the box.
 
Hope this helps,
 
David Fung

jazzyvee

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Buzzing sounds with my bass
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2012, 03:25:31 AM »
Now I don't even know what to think.  
I got the DS-5 back on Monday and took it home. Plugged into Mesa boogie Walkabout amp... and got loads of hum still.
 
Rigged up my Alembic Rig with F1-x and QSC and no noise. Set up the rig in stereo and still no noise.  However the bass pickup is still louder when the DS-5 is switched to stereo compared to when both pickups are selected in mono mode.  I will wait till my other DS-5 comes back from having the transformer changed and see if it behaves in the same way.  
 
 
Jazzyvee
ps: you may remember a while back I had problems with a regular clicking noise from  my Roland JC120 when using my Dragon Series guitar.  
I've found that the problem is due to one of these lovely things.
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/devolo-1383-dlan-highspeed-ii-85mbps-powerline-starter-kit-00939029-pdt.html?intcmpid=display~RR~Computing~00939029
 
When it's on the signals are getting into the amp vial the power socket.
Turned off... silence.  
Time to get a filter cable or mains conditioning unit for my gear.
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

LMiwa

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« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2012, 09:36:32 AM »
One other thing to check for neyman - my Trace Elliot preamp had both a ground lift switch and a polarity reverse switch. If yours has those, you may want to try various combinations of them.
 
You may have some variation of a ground loop / open ground causing the hum.

neyman

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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2012, 10:09:11 AM »
Is it synchronicity or coincidence?
 
I flipped the ground switch the other day, and I'm waiting for the next show to see if it worked. Still can't replicate the noise at home.
 
Thanks Imiwa!

mica

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« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2012, 02:01:04 PM »
Is your bass plugged in when you get the hum or buzz?

neyman

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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2012, 03:26:28 PM »
Not sure I understand. Yes, the bass is plugged in when the noise starts. The amp was not buzzing before the bass was plugged in, and the buzzing stops when the DS-5R is unplugged (power cord disconnected).
 
BTW, I haven't had a chance to run it 3+ hours at a gig yet.

sonicus

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« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2012, 04:47:26 PM »
I would move the DS-5 away from the amp while plugged in and see what happens. Use longer 1/4 patch cords if needed and do not put the DS-5 near (on top) the amp or preamp. What happens now ?  
 
I had an old Trace Elliot GP7 SM preamp once that picked up power supply EMI noise.  Moving the DS-5 further away fixed the problem.

neyman

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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2012, 08:13:12 AM »
I tried moving the power supply (DS-5R) to the floor when the noise started. No change.