Author Topic: Tuning Down 1/2 Step  (Read 659 times)

stout71

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« on: July 18, 2013, 11:45:27 AM »
Ok folks - So I've been in many situations where I've had to tune my whole axe down because the band I was in liked to do that.  Easier on vocals?  Perhaps slightly, but I think it's a cop-out.  (My opinion.)  I always just tweaked the neck slightly to compensate.  Anyway, I may be getting into the same situation again but now that I have a 5 string, I'm concerned that it will start feeling like a rubber band.  The Rotosounds PSD's I use only have 1 gauge of string for the 5 and it's 130.  So I don't have the option of compensating by increasing the gauge.  The scale is 34 and it's barely tight enough as it stands.
 
Has anyone else run into this situation and if so, what was the solution?

FC Bass

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2013, 12:18:53 PM »
I share your opinion :-)
 
We also play 1/2 step down, no problem for the Alembics (50-70-90-110-130 R.Cocco strings on the Elan 5)
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stout71

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 12:23:43 PM »
But there is a discernable difference in tension and feel, no?

sonicus

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2013, 12:49:00 PM »
Hey Pal !
                I was ask to turn down 1/2 step once at the last minute for a whole set once with out prior warning for a Guest Performer while I was in a house band in the 1980's . (4 String)Tension wise ,  WET NOODLES  came to mind as I played . I was relieved when the Guest  Performer  nodded an approval to me and smiled as he walked off stage. After that nights gig I asked our fearless leader to please warn me the day before so that I can bring a Bass equipped with heavier gage strings for such requests.
 The next time around with that 1/2 step down tuning I was prepared with La Bella .052-.110 Flats (4 string) ,It worked  much better that time.

5a_quilt_top

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2013, 12:52:02 PM »
The main reason I use a 5-string is to avoid re-tuning - I change the fingering as opposed to re-tuning to compensate for key changes.
 
Like you, I have a 130 low B (D'addarios) and it's borderline floppy when tuned to standard pitch. To compound matters, my action is fairly low.
 
Use of a 5-string is critical for one of the projects I'm in now, which is vocal-driven. If a given song is in G and the vocalist isn't comfortable with it, we transpose the key and I change my fingering as required.
 
On a 5-string, usually no problem if it's 1/2 step either way - but the real difficulties start when the song is originally in D and it gets transposed to B...yikes...but that's another topic.
 
One big upside to this is it has forced me to learn alternate fingerings for my parts and this has improved my finger dexterity and expanded my knowledge of the fretboard.
 
It's fun when I discover Hey, that's cool, I can also get there from HERE.

that_sustain

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2013, 12:55:35 PM »
I haven't played a half step down in years.  I remember it made the whole bass sound better.

stout71

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2013, 01:11:00 PM »
There is certainly a case for making a bass sound better, by any means necessary, but not at the expense of significant diminished playability.   Granted, I am at work and the bass is at home.  I haven't tried it but I wanted to get some feedback anyway.  A wet noodle low-B makes me cringe.

briant

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2013, 02:32:59 PM »
When I play my 5 string I just don't tune down.  I play everything in standard tuning while the guitard players switch instruments/tuning.  Problem solved.
 
With my current band I play my 4 string 100% of the time and we change tuning through the night to match the original recordings.  I can go from standard E to D (D G C F) and the string tension gets a little squirrely but it's still very reasonable.  However my basses are all 35 scale and in my experience that does make a difference when tuning down.

bigredbass

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2013, 12:26:26 AM »
One of the side benefits for me to playing a five-string was I didn't have to re-tune, or tune down for certain things.  I just move to the key, done.  
 
I'm not smart enough to use de-tuners on one string, and I'd never take time on stage to drop the whole thing a half-step for this tune, then turn right around and go back to normal for maybe the very next song on the list.  Too much work !  Besides, it helps bust me out of that box of so many tunes in E or A or G.
 
Although these days, I wonder why there's not some rack-mount or floor pedal RE-tuner that would just transpose up or down your pitch output like those auto-tune guitars.  Or a pitch correction piece like they tune vocals with for ham-fisted, not quite there yet, fretless players.
 
J o e y

that_sustain

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2013, 01:46:58 AM »
I'll never own another fiver.  It's fine and dandy, until you try and fake a bunch of songs for a setlist or whatever.  Gets confusing.  
 
Actually, I can't see (ever) owning another bass than the one I have.

stout71

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2013, 05:13:45 AM »
Transposition is always an option, but since it's rock (90's stuff, mostly), the lion's share of the songs are in E, A, D and G.  Transposing everything a 1/2 step down means I'd never get to play in open tuning, which sucks.  Plus I've played all these songs for going on 20 years.  I have so many of them ingrained that I don't even have to think about it when I play them.  Switching it up and re-learning everything is not something I really want to do.  I'm gonna pull out the axe today and mess around with it, to see if it's really as bad as I think it will be.

fmm

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2013, 06:00:10 AM »
I don?t tune down.  I just play in the key we?re playing in.  Unless there?s a note below the range of the bass that?s absolutely integral to the song, I just play it up an octave.  On rare occasions, I?ve detuned my E down as far as a D, but then I have to think really hard .  If I have to play lower than that, I?ll consider grabbing my 6 string.
 
I once played in a blues band where the guitarist wanted to get as close to Stevie Ray Vaughn?s playing as he could (just don?t ask me to exactly clone the bass lines ? I don?t do tribute bands).  He had 2 guitars.  I really didn?t know (or care) _why_ he had 2 guitars, that?s his business.  It turns out one of them was tuned down a half step.  We were playing a frat gig where we had consumed our share of adult beverages.  Prior to the last song, he breaks a string on his standard tuning guitar, and grabs the one that?s in Eb.  I soon realize the difference between the 2 guitars, and make the shift down a half-step, but the song contained a unison riff that bottomed out on an open E.  Oops.  That was not an easy real-time edit after 4 hours of free beer.
 
I?ve run into a similar issue with folk guitarists who use capos frequently.  Having never played guitar, the use of a capo strikes me as odd.  The only reason I own one is for setups.
 
There?s a folk band I?ve been subbing with where I?ve had to ask, ?What key are you singing this in??, rather than ?What key are you playing this in?? because the guitarist insists he?s playing in G even though he?s got a capo on the third fret.
 
Our praise band guitarist also uses capos a lot.  I give him flack about it, noting that jazz players figured out these chords a long time ago.  We had one song with a modulation in the middle.  He was using a capo.  I asked him if he was going to stop in the middle of the song and reposition the capo.
 
That?s exactly what he did.
fmm

keith_h

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2013, 09:19:54 AM »
I had a similar situation with the guitar player keeping two guitars. One in standard tuning the other a half step down. Not to be out done I kept two basses. ;-) I used my four string for anything in standard tuning or where transposition sounded ok and the fiver for transposing the remaining 1/2 step down stuff. Since the guitarist would would limit how often he changed guitars it worked out reasonably well.  
 
Keith

lbpesq

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2013, 09:22:46 AM »
Another common name for a capo is a cheater.  I have a Veillette Gryphon, which is an 18.5 scale tenor 12 string guitar tuned in high D, the equivalent of the 10th fret on a standard guitar.  It sounds sort of like a mandolin on steroids.  Wonderful instrument.  When I play with others, I have to transpose up a whole step, or use a capo.  I never use the capo.  Good mental gymnastics to keep the mind sharp, I say!  
 
Bill, tgo

FC Bass

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Tuning Down 1/2 Step
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2013, 10:44:45 AM »
Here's an ampcheater  Youtube link
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'83 Spoiler
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'23 Series II Europa 5