Author Topic: Modifying the power supply (Read 1575 times)

FC Bass · « **on:** February 16, 2016, 05:39:29 PM »

Hi all! :-)

Note: I am crazy enough to fool around with this stuff.
If you are not experienced and don't know how much a high voltage jolt can hurt or even be deadly DON'T TRY TO DO THIS YOURSELF!

I?ve tried to make my DS-5 a little more versatile, also plan on doing this to a Rack power supply once I get my hands on one of those. (for the big Mesa rig)

In one of the songs of my new band I use two basses simultaneously, I hit the low B on the fretless 5 (while it?s on a stand) as accent of the B I play on the Series I

You can hear it in this recording (again shameless spam) :-) (and live I don?t do the slide to A on the fretless, that would require at least the mythological third arm) :-)

YouTube link

My DS-5 allready had a huge hole in the back, so here?s what I did:
I installed a female mono jack in the back and connected the tip of this jack to the tip of the Bass/Mono out (with a 20K resistor, see pics)

When used mono, it works :-)
But when used ?Stereo? it doesn?t? :-( I only hear the Series I, not the fretless?

Btw, my ?stereo? rig is not very impressive, for the bass channel I use a SWR Bassic Black and for the treble channel an active 12 inch Laney floor monitor.
So for now I don?t want the fretless over the treble channel, I?m pretty sure the low B and bass control of the Orion will destroy that poor floor monitor.

So here are the pics, hope its all clear enough and hopefully someone will spot my mistake :-)
Oh, and the last picture shows off one of the nice thingies I got in my latest package from Santa Rosa, thanx Mica & crew!

(Message edited by fc_spoiler on February 16, 2016)

edwin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2016, 12:25:01 AM »

I'm not sure I follow what you did in there. Are you trying to run two basses from one power supply and have a stereo output?

It looks like a lot of wire running around in a small space.

FC Bass · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2016, 07:41:58 AM »

Two scenarios:

*For using the Series bass with any other (non series) bass (in my case the Orion 5) without having to plug/unplug all the time and be able to play both basses simultaneously.
I used a Roland VS recorders mixer section for this previously, but that?s unpractical to set up, takes up extra space and adds some noise?

The input on the back is fed straight to the Bass output, no connection to the power section there.

*In the big rig (with rack ps) I?ll be able to play wired for rehearsals and plug in the wireless in the ? input for live gigs. So there?s a minimal amount of switching between the live and rehearsal setup.
When I play the Series I with a wireless system, I use the two internal batteries (for now, plan on making a portable accu powered ps asap)

And yeah? This PS has seen some rough times (unlike the bass) It was modified with a horrible and dangerous looking on/off switch. Most likely more has been done but all works as expected :-) (not counting in my mod)

JimmyJ · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2016, 10:06:40 AM »

Hey Flip,

That is one well used DS-5! A couple of mine look like this too...

It works in mono because you've essentially built a resistor summing network where the Series bridge pu, neck pu, and the output of your fretless - are all 20k away from that front panel mono bass output on the DS-5. With active basses that's a great way to do it!

To make it work in stereo will be trickier because the Series outputs no longer have those resistors in line. And simply running two 20k resistors to the new rear panel jack would make that a mono output jack, which your fretless probably wouldn't like...

Possibly moving the 20k Series summing resistors to before the mono switch, and then two 20k resistors from the input jack to both front output jacks... But I'm not sure how that would effect the level of the fretless into your stereo rig... Plus, if you then switched to mono you'd only have 10k from the rear jack to the output...

As you can see, I only know enough about this to get myself into trouble. HA!! Best wait for wiser suggestions...

Jimmy J

ed_zeppelin · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2016, 10:11:51 AM »

quote:Btw, my ?stereo? rig is not very impressive, for the bass channel I use a SWR Bassic Black and for the treble channel an active 12 inch Laney floor monitor.

Stanley Clarke uses a similar setup, where instead of left/right it's high/low. (He also thinks of his stage rig as a monitor, and relies on the FOH soundman for his sound. I only mention it because it's a much-discussed point of contention on this forum.)

Bear in mind that he's also running his string bass A/B through the same rig incorporating two F-1X preamps, a Fender Champ and a bunch of EBS MicroBass DIs and other toys.

I mention it for comparative purposes, and also because I use the same basic setup (I play upright primarily and sort of plugged the Alembic into the system I had set up for that, rather than the other way around.) Running piezo transducers and a soundhole-mounted condenser mic in true stereo is a nightmare and sounds like crap, so I run it high/low through two amps, and discovered the Alembic sounds great that way, too.

I was quite pleased to discover that Stanley arrived at the same conclusions, despite the fact that he never consulted with me whatsoever

By the way, here's my DS-5, which I made from Radio Shack parts decades ago. Mica took pity on me and sent me the schematics. What a great company, huh?

It was supposed to be a temporary solution until I could afford a real DS-5, but once I beat the hell out of an old bottom plate from a DOD stomp-box, covered it in copper foil and mounted it in there to isolate the jacks from the old Rock-ola jukebox step-down transformer, it's dead silent and works just spiffy (my excuse for why I keep buying crap instead of a proper DS-5, to be honest). Plus, I'm rather fond of the Star Trek lunchbox.

I applaud your initiative and craftsmanship.

FC Bass · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2016, 05:41:57 PM »

Thanx (again) Jimmy! I think you're on to something there, this might work for me: Replace the neck pickup 20K with a wire and place the 20K before the switch (directly after ?2 from neck pickup?) In mono mode the three signals are all summed through the 20K resistors. In Stereo mode the bridge pickup goes straight to the ?bridge out (treble)?, the neck pickup and ? input are summed trough the 20K resistors.

Pretty sure I?ve missed something here, I know much less so that?s a recipe for some serious trouble :-) When experimenting I plug in each component in a row, when something is not working as expected I immediately unplug that component. ?would make that a mono "output" jack, which your fretless probably wouldn't like...? Did scare me a bit though, I shall take a bit more care next time.(and wait for the green light from the experts here) So, thanx again (again) Jimmy. Great to have you and your knowledge here! And no worries, the Orion is fine! :-) Thanx Mr. Zeppelin! :-) That?s a tidy powersupply! Maybe I have to tidy things up a bit in mine, strangely enough it is dead quiet in this state. A bit frustrating to see compared to the big rig with all it?s perfect wiring (quality cables, all Neutrik connectors) central power supply etc, that beast is a pain ********* to get quiet :-) Big Rig:

This set will only be used in ?Mono? mode, the Strategy gets it?s signal from the Slave out of the Bass 400. The Ibanez HD1000 is replaced with a HD1500, the Alesis with a Lexicon MX400 and the wireless is in a separate rack now. On the pedal drawer there?s a Big Muff, Little Big Muff and Tech21 XXL distortion, on the pedalboard a Mesa Abacus midi switcher, Morley PWF, Classic Wah and a Midi controllable A/B switcher to switch between the Morleys (G Lab midi 2) and a Boss CS-1 (only used with the PWF) The Bass 400 powers two 1x15 Diesel cabs, the Strategy two 2x10 Diesel cabs (all EVM speakers)

elwoodblue · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2016, 06:21:22 PM »

I'm getting smarter just hanging around here, slowly

Nice Rig FC!
I love those Ibanez HD units.I use the MX400's in my racks also,they're great!

terryc · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2016, 09:18:12 AM »

All too complicated is my opinion but hey, what do I know !

flpete1uw · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2016, 11:42:00 AM »

Hey Flip,
I just changed out the caps on my F2-B they were 1/3 the size of the originals. Newer Caps have the same values using much less space. Could save a you some valuable real-estate. Just a thought?
Pete

jazzyvee · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2016, 12:57:03 PM »

Hi Flip, I'm just wondering do you have roadies or good friends to help you carry that gear up and down stairs when you are doing gigs?
Those two mesa boogie amps alone must pack some serious kilograms

jazzyvee · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2016, 01:28:46 PM »

Hi Flip, I'm just wondering do you have roadies or good friends to help you carry that gear up and down stairs when you are doing gigs?
Those two mesa boogie amps alone must pack some serious kilograms

FC Bass · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2016, 02:07:42 PM »

Hah! :-)

We do have some guys that sometimes come with our gigs, but most of the times we have to load/unload/etc ourselves :-(

The Bass 400 is a bout 24Kg, the Strategy 27Kg and the rack 30Kg, so that's pretty heavy. Thank god for the wheels, but stairs are always very uncomfortable... (also the tiny stairs to a stage, I love ramps!)

The drummers hardware case is the worst we have to haul... I hate that thing! :-)

I've been asked if I want to be basstech for Jerry Only (Misfits) So maybe I'll be a roady this Summer. :-)
If I get the job, I'll try to sneak in some Activators in the Devastator Basses :-)

Pete: Thanx! I've been thinking about replacing those caps, will indeed save a lot of space.

Btw, cleaned things up a bit:

keith_h · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2016, 02:33:43 PM »

We do have some guys that sometimes come with our gigs, but most of the times we have to load/unload/etc ourselves :-(

Ah yes the strong back of youth however in my day we didn't need no stinking wheels.

Keith

edwin · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2016, 02:52:54 PM »

Looks much better! I suddenly feel much more tranquil.

FC Bass · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2016, 02:39:13 PM »

Glad to report the mod is working perfectly, Thanx Jimmy! :-) No noise and the sonic spectrum seems to be evenly divided between the two basses :-) Looks like this in my DS5:

Also replaced the red led with a green one:

The extra 1/4 mono input:

For the rack powersupply I plan on adding two inputs, one in front and one in the back. The wireless system plugs into the back input and the front input(s) can be used at rehearsals or as emergency input if the wireless fails during a gig. Here?s a current pic of the effects rack:

One empty space left, waiting for the DS5R/DS 6 :-) Cozy corner: