Anybody else have this problem?

[Joey Wilson (bigredbass)]

Paul:
 
I DEFINITELY remember 5-strings from the early 80's.  Seems like I saw Nathan East with that white Yamaha BB5000 everywhere in videos, even a GHS print ad.  I bought my first 5 in '86.  Of course, Jimmy Johnson and his mighty SII 5-string were arlready at large in the Flim and the BB's recordings.  Sonically, Nathan was very obvious in the choruses of Two Hearts from Phil Collins.  The 4-chord in the chorus was anchored by these low C's that I knew weren't from a D-tuner.
 
Greetings to Belgium from Tennessee,
 
Joey Wilson

[Paul Lindemans (palembic)]

Hi Joey,
I guess I found a Tenessee man awake on the other side of the Atlantic. It' 10 o clock in the morning here. You were right on Nathan. Was Jimmy Johnson the man behind James Taylor? I'm bad in names: I saw a bautiful live video of a James concert recorded at a barn at his home where Jimmy is playing, I'm a fan.
The point that I wanted to make is that over here in Belgium I always found lesser 5 string players as 4 string players. And you can really forget the 6 string. As you know Belgium is very small. There are going a lot of Belgiums in Tenessee. So to compare US with Belgium is foolish but it's the attitude in music-shops I'm talking here. The shop here in Leuven (who is definitely NOT specializing in basses) has say 20 basses, there are 5 5 strings and in the 15 years I pass the shop I saw only two (2) 6 strings: a Yamaha TRBP6 and a Warwick.
Those basses were popular earlier in the US I guess.
Greetings back my friend!
Paul

[Alfredo (kayo)]

Hey Michael,
 
I found your commentary to be quite ironic in that I have come across the same thing for at least 10 years.  I found that (with R&B and Jazz in particular) there are  many players who have developed a preference for a particular color of sound, specific to a couple of genres but patterned on the classic Fender (Jazz or P Bass) sound.  As a result of that, my Steinberger and Alembic's were frowned upon because they lacked that particular punchy (sometimes boomy and bottom heavy) sound.  I've received much criticism on the distinct Alembic sound (specially from older cats that are biased becuase of what they grew up with).  I wouldn't worry about it too much, you're lucky that you are getting positive feedback on your Alembic tone.  Though I do agree that much of the sound envelope has to do with 1) style & technique 2) amp 3) speakers, 4) effects and/or EQ, much of what I came across was just that the old school people were stuck on Fender tone (much like when the electric bass first came out the old timers still preferred stand-up tones).  Nowadays, with very few exceptions I overwhelmingly receive compliments on the Alembic tone.

[Michael DeVincenzo (jlpicard)]

Alfredo, You know, it alway seemed strange to me that people like that boomy  tone.I have never been a great fan of the Fender  tone mainly because to me ,they sound great sitting around the living room jamming with your friends at low volume but get them on a BIG stage in a BIG room with a BIG PA and you get MUSH! ( the main reason alembic embarked on a quest to improve the bass guitar in the first place!)As we bass players know , one of  the hardest things to achieve live is clarity and the ability to hold your own in the mix. Well, along comes Alembic and Wham! there you go folks..Everything you've always wanted and yet  some players get flack for it because now....the other players have to give up some of the precious sonic space to the bass player that  they are used to hogging for themselves! ( ie. guitarists,drummers, etc.) who are accustomed to feeling the bass ,not really hearing it.   Sorry if I seem a little militant about it but I just can't understand why you would want to move backward after such a sonic revelation such as an Alembic provides.
( other than  trying to duplicate an authentic sound  for a certain style or genre) Mike

[Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)]

You bring up some very valid points Michael.  One thing that I always run in to is in the studio.  The engineer sees me take out an Alembic and freaks out because it's not a Fender.  Now he has to work to get a sound because his bass channel is dialed into a Fender sound.  I usually ask him if I could sit at the board and dial in my sound which only takes a few seconds.  Most of the time it's just a matter of running the EQ completely flat.  If it is a commercial session though, you don't have much time to discuss the situation with the engineer or producer so a lot of times I am asked to just bring a P-bass.  Live gigs are a completely different thing though because now its my choice and nobody elses.  Usually if someone gets all bummed out because I didn't bring the Fender, I just give them some foam ear plugs and tell them it would just sound the same as the Fender.  Very rarely does this happen after the first gig with a new artist because they know they can trust me for the best sound possible for tthe gig.  One thing that I think we as Alembic wielding bass players have to be careful of is the fact that an Alembic, being played full open can scare quite a few guitar players because it's not the sound they're used to.  I have learned through the years to go easy on filters and not scare too many other players into thinking I'm just a frustrated guitar player.
Believe me, I get this all the time up here in Boston, which seems to be a 4-string, p-bass type of city when it comes to blues and funk.  And it does get frustrating having to justify it most of the time.  The other thing I run into is when I do pull out this beautiful bass, I get the this guy must not be a 'real' player if he can afford an instrument that looks like a coffee table attitude, and was told this after a gig one night, it was followed by an apology too.
I think what it comes down to is we as bass players have to assume a certain responsibility to the people who hire us to perform the role of a bass player, and when they see even a 5 string come out of the gig bag, they get nervous...Jamerson never needed a 5 string.  But when we show them that we're not frustrated and that we love to play BASS the way it should be played, just because I choose to do it on a much more superior instrument doesn't mean squat.  Just get out of my way if you decide to give me a solo because now all bets are off.  I posted a similar response in the Blues/Alembic Players thread last month.
Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing!!!
 
Peace - Dino

[Paul Lindemans (palembic)]

Well Dino, amen to that one (I wish I could write it that way).
;-)
 
Paul

[Derwin Moss (bassdude63)]

I have a slightly different take on the Fender sound and non-Alembic basses: Without a doubt My Europa is my favorite sounding bass. I just bought a Spector USA NS-2J that also sounds awesome, but different than my Alembic. My collection includes fretted & fretless P & J basses, an early 70's Rickenbacker 4001, and EB Musicman Sterlings and a Stingray-5. Some of my Fenders have been modified with either EMG,Bartolini, or DiMarzio pickups, Schaller deluxe tuning gears, and Badass bridges. I want as many tonal options as possible. And in my opinion there's no one do-it-all bass. In keeping with this belief, I'll eventually re-convert the pickups in my Fender basses back to stock passive pickups. Just as a Gibson Les Paul does'nt sound like a Fender Strat, my Alembic does'nt sound like a Fender Precision. Each has it's own voice. The fun thing for me to do is to experiment with the different voices I have at my disposal and find the best for it's given application. Now as far as playability goes, My Europa and Spector are my most comfortable basses to play, but if I play any one of my basses exclusively for a few weeks, my hands adjust and it becomes easy to play.  
Just my opinion, Derwin.

[Michael DeVincenzo (jlpicard)]

Let me clarify just a little bit. I agree with Derwin that there is no  do it all bass. God knows, my Europa will never sound like my Stingray! However, when it comes to dealing with the less than perfect world we often encounter,the Alembic seems to be able to deal with room acoustics short comings better than any Fender I've ever encountered.I have a Jazz modifyed with a Badass bridge, Dimarzio Ultra jazz pickups and John East preamp.(A very nice preamp by the way).In an A-B comparison for a nice round finger tone,( no boosting the treble on the Jazz or opening up the filter on the Europa),sorry,the Jazz still sounds muddled next to the Europa. I love the growl and that rear pickup Jazz tone but playing live ,it seems that something just gets lost in the translation. I think what bugs me is the uneveness of response.I think that the difference for me boils down to this; The fender forces me to play a certain way in order to compensate for it's shortcomings and the Alembic forces me to compensate for only MY shortcomings! And yet, I must admire the roster of great players who can pull a wonderfull tone out of their Fenders. Different strokes, I guess. Mike  
 

[Derwin Moss (bassdude63)]

I agree with you, Mike. I find I can't play my Europa for an extended period or I have one heck of a time getting around on my other basses. The Europa just spoils my hands-it takes so little effort to hear myself(and also the glitches in my technique, but that too is a good thing). Playing it compared to most of my other basses is such a treat. Live, I generally use my MM Sterlings because they're so tough. They're also pretty easy to play. I plan on using my new Spector live soon. It has dual EMG J-type pickups with the Aguilar OBP-1 preamp. Next to my Europa, it's the most responsive bass I have. I also agree that my P-bass forces me to play in a different way, it's not the most hand-friendly of basses- but I do feel very comfortable with the Jazz bass neck, probably because I'm so used to it's dimensions. But once again, even with all the electronics upgrades I've done to my non-Alembic basses, they just don't have the response of an Alembic. The folks in the wine country make incredible basses, that's for sure. Question for you Mike: How does that SF-2 of yours work with your non-Alembics? While I'm rattling on, another downside to playing different types of basses is that I have a learning curve period when I change from one to another. This is really a challenge. I admire people who double on acoustic bass. I played the doghouse in my teens. Talk about a totally different animal. Learning to play a 5-string after so many years of trying to learn the 4-string was a huge adjustment for me also. As we're both members of the Alembician's Utah Chapter, I hope to see you around sometime.
Best Wishes, Derwin

[Michael DeVincenzo (jlpicard)]

Derwin , the SF-2 works well for just about anything I care to run throught it.  So many options ,so little time!
 Also look for Triple Trouble at either Totem's or the Club 90 and you'll find me. Mike

[Joey Wilson (bigredbass)]

My two cents:
 
I'm no longer playing ANYTHING but my Alembic five-string, nor do I now own anything else.  
 
I decided to dedicate myself to one instrument.  That's quite enough to get my head around.  I'm no longer hustling gigs or sessions, but if I were, I'd still bring this one bass.  I've decided to please myself first. Frankly, after years of gigging, I've got no patience for idiots who certainly are NOT qualified to be telling me what to own and play.  
 
I've come to believe owning a lot of different basses for different sounds is a lot like buying a lot of different cars so I could have a lot of different rearview mirrors.
 
If I was in a position where I had to have a Fender sound, I'd use Activators, preferably a PJ setup in an Excel.  God forbid, but if I just had to have a bolt-on, I'd do it myself thru Warmoth.
 
I'm now into perfecting the other half of my instrument: the preamp, amp, cables, direct box, etc.  Make no mistake:  Our instrument can only be viewed as the bass+amp. Either by itself is only HALF of the 'instrument'.
 
I trust my ears, my training, and my experience.
I'm not going to sound like a clavinet, solo like crazy every tune, drown the band out, show up late/drunk/stoned, etc.  I'm on time, in tune, the rig is ready, and I'm ready and excited.  
 
I got real tired of being the only pro at too many of my jobs.  That's why now I play for me.
And I'm enjoying my playing more than I have in a long time. My turn will come around again, and I'll be that much better next time for these decisions.  
 
I feel for all of you in that 'dude, where's the Fender?' box.  I lived it for a long time, but I don't miss it at all.

[Paul Lindemans (palembic)]

And 1 big hand for Joey!

[Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)]

How about TWO big hands for Joey,
 
Nothing gets me more than being on a gig and hearing the 'dude...
I usually reply with 'dude, where's your '59 Les Paul or your '62 Strat?
The problem being that I still put bread on the table as a full time freelancer so I've got to kinda grin and bare it.
Here's one that you'll all love especially you Joey after speaking of your less-than-qualified associates.
I was on a Christmas date a couple of weeks ago with one of the guitar players I play with frequently.  Every gig he asks me for an A so he can tune which really bugs me, 'cause he's too cheap to go buy a tuner.  I have a tuner in my signal path so it's easy for me.  
Well, as he's tuning to me, he insists that I'm out of tune, I know what your thinking, he might have perfect pitch.  He doesn't!!!  I wasn't in tune with the cd he was playing over the PA so he automatically thinks that I'm out of tune.... the guy with the tuner!!!  The drummer looks at me and then looks at him and asks, why is the guitar player WITHOUT the tuner telling the bass player WITH the tuner he's out of tune!!!!  LOL
I thought you might enjoy that!!!
Happy New Year,
Dino

[Joey Wilson (bigredbass)]

DMono:
 
Yes, I'm NOT making my living with it, so I do have more freedom than I used to have.  I certainly know that being commercial requires those choices that I now don't have to make any more, and my hats off to all of you that are required to make the choices that business requires.  
 
I usually can't better a great story, but this time I can:  
 
In my hometown lived a FABULOUS fretless player, the epitome of tone, taste, and chops.  Had the first NS Spector I ever saw, which was a big deal in East Texas in the late 70s.  Steve Ellis had such perfect pitch sense and fretless technique, he'd tune at the house, then go to the gig.  Wherever the band was pitch-wise, he had fine enough ears to shift his hands ever so slightly to catch them and be in perfect tune with them !  
Never said a word, just poker-faced, and they had NO IDEA of just what a gift they were seeing.  All the while listening to his guitar players rant that they couldn't keep their guitars in tune.  
 
It's a wonder we all don't drink Maalox shooters !  
 
Hope Ya Have a Great 2 0 0 3 !  
 
JW
 
(Message edited by bigredbass on January 04, 2003)

[Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)]

That's Priceless!!!!!
Joey I also have to applaud you to know when enough is enough and to step away and do YOUR thing.  I'm working towards that and hopefully I'lll get there pretty soon.  Until then I continue to do what I do and be thankful for what I do have.  I'll have to remember the bottle of Maalox too.
 
Peace - Dino