Author Topic: Love / hate relationship with my "new" Alembic (Read 548 times)

bsee · « **on:** June 21, 2004, 01:25:55 PM »

Hi all-

As you may remember, I received a new-to-me 1990 Persuader 5 a few weeks ago. As you might gather from the title of this thread, I both love and hate it. (By the way, S/N is 90P6058 and I would like to get a full disclosure if the data is available)

What do I love about it? Most things that matter. Feel, fingering comfort, bottom end, etc. The list of hates is much shorter. Only two things.

First, I am used to the tone of an old Fender Jazz (Zon Sonus), and the Alembic tone is significantly different. I like the bottom end, but there's very little of the midrange that I am used to. This bass disappears pretty quickly in the mix. It looks like a walnut top and stock Persuader electronics. Maybe new strings will help this, but I don't want to play with that until after my gig this weekend lest my neck start moving around on me. This bass rumbles, but doesn't growl.

Second, the balance of this thing is pretty bad. I am killing my shoulder trying to hold it in a reasonable position. The headstock wants to go flat to slightly down in standing positions. I got one recommendation to put a string on it like an acoustic, but I don't think I could play like that.

Other minor things are the string spacing, which is just a bit too narrow for slap (for me anyway) and the odd (4 steel, nickel B) strings that are on the bass. I am certainly looking for another medium scale five string that I hope won't have these flaws, and may consider a build if one doesn't show up relatively soon.

Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks!
-Bob

adriaan · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2004, 01:52:21 PM »

Bob,

For neck-dive, check how wide your strap is where it's resting on your shoulder. An extra inch seems to help a lot already, and padding doesn't hurt either. I use a 3 wide strap on my Spoiler, which I think has the same body style as most Persuaders, and is medium scale too.

For the midrange, you really need to balance out the whole range of the instrument, and it may work out differently than what you've been used to. Put the EQ controls on your rig in neutral, and work from there.

Happy tone-hunting!

(Message edited by adriaan on June 21, 2004)

dadabass2001 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2004, 04:16:24 PM »

Hi Bob,
Joe Osborn style aside, I have always felt changing strings provides fuller frequency response, giving my instruments their full voice. My fretted Epic has a walnut top and a wonderful woody tone with growl when I set the pickup balance slightly more toward the bridge pickup. I use DR High Beams.
Adriaan is right on the money about starting with flat response on your rig and then readjust as needed.
I'm betting you'll find everything you need in terms of tone if you keep working with it.
Mike

bigredbass · « **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2004, 11:08:14 PM »

bsee:

ALEMBICs reveal themselves to you slowly. The real beauty is that unlike most 'off the rack'instruments, you're NOT going to hear all it can do in five minutes.

Balance is usually a problem with all but a few of their models: We all have found our own ways to live with them. I wish I could tell you otherwise, but that's just the way it is.

I would certainly advise you to find a complete set of strings (not the mix it came with), learn to adjust your action and pickup heights (or have it done by a REAL professional) and go on to find your own tone and comfort zone with this bass. ALEMBICs are without equal in their adjustability, and are electronically simple as well in terms of molding those electronics to your ears.

Earlier ALEMBICs, indeed, are narrow compared to contemporary 'wide-five' necks. But I actually prefer the narrow ('classic') neck taper for my mostly fingerstyle/pick playing.

You're going to need to make the investment in time and effort to make this PERSUADER your bass: You could never do this with a Fender or Music Man. This bass, you will find over time, is moldable to your needs in a way that VERY few basses are ever built to be. You won't be sorry, and there are LOTS of players here in the Club that can offer you lots of advice from experience. And I promise you that you'll NEVER find customer service like the Wickershams offer. Even for guys like me and you that bought a used ALEMBIC. To them, these instruments are forever their children, just amazing.

I bought a five-string SPOILER five years ago, and I'm still stunned every time I pick it up.

Good Luck, and Congratulations.

J o e y

jazzyvee · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2004, 09:09:08 AM »

I agree with your words there. I own an SC and i can say that every time i pick it up to play i find a new tone that I never new existed.

I also own a musicman Sterling and usually have it on the back pickup setting all the time and mainly have that crisp marcus miller tone. It is a fine bass but I don't find it as flexible in tone as the alembic.

You certainly do need to spend a lot of time experimenting with your sound so you can dial it in when you have a gig.

You do find that you can pick the bass up today and find an incredible sound. Then tomorrow pick it up and find that you can improve on that with minute movements of the filters.

The thing I like about it is that you can get it to sound more bassy without losing the edge on the attack and get more crispness without loosing the bottom end.

I've been doing a lot of reggae lately and the bass sound is as awesome as when doing jazz , funk and rnb.
Keep at it, you will get there.

salesdog · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2004, 05:40:46 PM »

I have just recently purchased my 1ST Alembic. WOW!!!!!!! Keeping in mind that I have been a died in the wool musicman user and that I have pruchased a Ken Smith in November. My used (new to me) Orion 6 has a beautiful full tone. This is also the first pro bass I have ownwed that does not have a mid range circut. I'm not sure that the Alembic needs it.
I will say that it does not have the same HI-FI Marcus Miller jazz tone that My Ken Smith has. But, I have found various warm and solid tones within the Orion that both my smith and my musicman cannot grab.
I am running my Orion through a GK 2000RB on top of 2 410rbh cabs. A DBX comprosser and a BBE sonic maximiser are within the power chain as well. Thought that I would share with my fellow bass heads...

David Houck · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2004, 07:36:47 PM »

Congrats on the acquisition of your Orion and welcome to the group.

palembic · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2004, 12:27:18 AM »

Brother Wil,

welcome here.
An interesting point you are giving here having 2 other -rather top basses I may say- basses who have a mid control.
What I remember from another thread is what our beloved Moder Mica said: Alembic surely CAN make mid-controls but it is the problem of the definition what is MID for you??
See it this way: in the total tonal spectrum that a bass can get it is easy to define high and low: it is 2 band so to make it simple: cut the range in 2 and you have the two reachable ranges high and low.
Mid is more complicate: it is HIGHLY depoending on personal taste to define where -coming from low- the MIDs are starting and where they go over in highs.
I remember Mica emphasising on this very PERSONAL thing and explaining why Alembic doesn't offer it as standard because there is not such thing as a standard mid, only YOUR mid ergo = custom.

Anyway ...just my wabbling again ...youy don't know me yet Wil but that will come soon enough together with a bunch far more interesting and the most friendly people in the low frequencied universe.

Paul the bad one

bsee · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2004, 09:25:38 AM »

Actually, TBO, high-end mid controls are usually sweepable to address that problem. Something like a band-pass filter with a three position Q switch (or variable boost/cut pot) would be really powerful. The question then is how wide should the band be? That gets you back to personal taste, but I think something very usable could be provided. The tone can be shaped in the rig as well, but the question is how much control you need at your fingertips.

-Bob

bsee · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2004, 09:25:50 AM »

Actually, TBO, high-end mid controls are usually sweepable to address that problem. Something like a band-pass filter with a three position Q switch (or variable boost/cut pot) would be really powerful. The question then is how wide should the band be? That gets you back to personal taste, but I think something very usable could be provided. The tone can be shaped in the rig as well, but the question is how much control you need at your fingertips.

-Bob

811952 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2004, 11:49:25 AM »

On my Series I, depending upon 28,000 other factors, adjusting the Q and filter on whichever pickup is appropriate (remember, 28,000 other factors) gives me all the midrange boost I need. A separate Bass/Mid/Treble setup would of course be cool, especially if one or more of those would be tuneable and have variable Q (can you say parametric? I knew you could), but realistically everything you need can be had with a little bit of experimentation with the volumes and filters. Hmmm. Someone mentioned in another thread that starting with your amplifier eq flat and going from there is the best way to explore the unlimited sounds these basses are capable of making...
John

gbarchus · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2004, 01:45:47 PM »

I agree with the people posting here that it takes time for you to realize your sound on an Alembic. In fact, taking the time will probably broaden your thinking and, most likely, change your sound since most other basses are much more limited at what they can produce. I have had Fenders and Musicmen (?) and started on my Alembic by trying to reproduce those sounds. But, in the process I realized that the palette was much greater and found that there was a lot more that I could do with my sound. Usually, if I bring my Alembic to a gig, I rarely pick up another bass (except my fretless). Also, on the semi-technical side, it's my assumption that the filter on an Alembic can sweep through any range of the bass including the mid range.

Gale

(Message edited by gbarchus on June 24, 2004)

(Message edited by gbarchus on June 24, 2004)

bsee · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2004, 05:12:22 PM »

Right, Gsle, the filter does sweep a pretty broad range, but it is a low pass filter. The Q switch effect provides a boost around the cutoff frequency, but you can't apply that midrange boost without also applying a high cut, and it does nothing to roll off the bass.

Maybe there are just too many options, but trying to find the right setting with Persuader electronics in a repeatable fashion is very painful. I think I would do better with volume/blend/filter than with volume/volume/filter in locating tones that I could find again. I like toggle switches and knobs with detents because they make finding that repeatable setting easier. I wouldn't care if I were playing originals, or even a single genre, because I'd find the tone that I like best and stick to it. Playing GB covers, I try to apply a tone that approximates the original versions, and there's a big difference between Beatles stuff and Van Morrison. I am often making significant tone changes between tunes, not just subtle adjustments.

Also, I really think new strings will open this bass up tremendously, and I will do that after the wedding I have to play on Saturday. I have a month before my next gig, which will be time to let the neck settle and make any adjustments so that it will be stable with the new strings. I just can't afford to have action problems this weekend, and I don't know what strings are on this thing to replace them with an exact match.

I really think I need to build a custom....

gbarchus · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2004, 01:43:23 PM »

Bob,

Like using a Fender Jazz, I get a good fat, midrange sound from my bridge pick-up. Then with the neck pick-up, I dial in the bass AND treble. When I slap, I just use the neck pick-up. That way I'm usually just working with the neck pick-up volume. Of course there ARE 28,000 variables as John said. Sometimes it takes a different amp/speaker /strings set-up to recover some of the sounds you may have lost in changing basses.

Gale

gbarchus · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2004, 02:00:25 PM »

Bob,

I just realized after re-reading the thread that you may only have one filter, whereas I have two on my 20th Anniversary model. It may be the reason I can get a midrange sound on my bridge pick-up. The boost really does emphasize the mids without the highs being overbearing, but I also use flatwound strings, no tweeter and all tube power (some of those other variables). Then with the other filter I can boost the highs and still get a lot of natural bass out of the neck pick-up.

Gale