Author Topic: String Height (Action) (Read 438 times)

wick5 · « **on:** November 30, 2015, 03:14:10 PM »

Gents,
I'm curious as to how the action is set on many Alembic owners' basses. My MK Deluxe 5-string came with low action. It felt great but if I dug in the slightest, I would get fret clicking. If some of y'all don't mind, would you join in with your string height?
After raising the action, the clicking is gone.
My low B at the 12th fret is 4/32 (8/64) of an inch. This is measured from top of fret to bottom of string.
I'm curious to find if this height is considered medium or high to most people. What's yours?
(sorry if this topic has already been covered in a previous thread)

PS - I would love to know the string height of Jimmy Johnson's concert bass!

edwardofhuncote · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2015, 05:27:44 PM »

Hit this link for some tips.

http://club.alembic.com/Images/16271/16318.html?1107545766

You'll find the FAQ section of this board is full of information like that, but Joey's is my favorite.

Jimmy Johnson is a pretty active member here, and loves to dish Alembic basses (especially fivers!), so you might post a query on his Showcase Thread.

http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/13111.html?1448130705

bigredbass · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2015, 11:04:00 PM »

Steve, it's all relative, there's really no 'right' answer as

1) No two basses adjust exactly the same, and . . .

2) No two bassists play the same way.

Action adjustment is player-dependent once you dial in that last 10-20% past the generic 'factory' setup where you get it exactly the way YOU want it. It's very subjective.

On the face of it, 1/8 clearance suggests a high action, relatively speaking. The question is how did it get there?

- A lot of relief ('bow') in the neck?

- Or is the bridge cranked way off the body?

- Is the adjustable nut very high?

- Or some combination of all three?

. . . . because action comes from a subtle blend of relief and heights, and all of this is string-gauge related as well. Relatively high-tension sets are obviously going to introduce more relief to a neck than a lower tension set, and it may or may not be related to the gauges involved, to make this all even more confusing !

But above all: IF it feels fine to you at that height, then that's the right height for you, and that's all that matters.

*****************

Speaking only for myself (as we're all different in what feels right):

I shoot for a dead-straight neck, then re-introduce as little relief as I can to eliminate any buzzes or rattles that can be heard thru the pickups. If it rattles a little unplugged but not plugged in, that's as good as it's going to get, and at that point I'm done: I've got all I'm going to get.

I essentially shoot for the same clearance over the first fret as the last fret, and thinking of the strings as a flat piece five strings wide, instead of being parallel to the fingerboard, the bass side will be just a hair higher than the treble side to account for the bigger arcs in which the B and E vibrate as opposed to the G and D.

This setup is me, and it took a very long time to realize it, much less teach myself to do it. It could easily be useless for a lot of people, some people would take to it like a duck to water.
But it suits me, and my hands know if it changes, which is rarely on an Alembic.

But the most important thing is to find what fits YOU, that's the only 'right' answer.

Joey

mario_farufyno · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2015, 07:35:42 PM »

My E string measures 2/32 at 12th fret... but I try to play mainly with a lighter touch and don't mind with that click as a way to explore a different tone. (In fact, my feeling is that this clicking sound makes the bass sound more percussive/agressive when played harder, so I like it)

keith_h · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2015, 08:04:41 PM »

I don't remember what I have the B string set at on my 5 string Orion but will pull it out to check it if I find the time. On my 4 string short scale basses the distance from the fret to the bottom of the E string I set to be between 1.5mm (1/16) and 2mm (5/64) depending upon the season. Anything below 1.5mm and I start to get fret buzz. The E string on my 5 string should be similar but likely is at 2mm. The high side (G string)on all of them will be set at 1mm which is a little under 3/64.

Keith

tncaveman · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2015, 05:56:44 PM »

I too have this problem with my Rogue. I have found that it's the way I'm plucking / pulling / fingering the string. If I make it vibrate perpendicular to the fingerboard, it's the loudest. Also, roll off some highs with your filter - that helps a bunch. If you dig in with a pick, it will go away. A pick naturally makes the strings vibrate parallel to the frets.

Hope this helps.

(Message edited by tncaveman on December 03, 2015)

sonicus · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2015, 06:41:47 PM »

The way that you fret the strings and where you pluck also plays a major role in cutting down string rattle. I use a very ligh touch with my plucking hand (right) and a very heavy touch with my fingering hand (left) directly behind each fret , almost ontop of the fret. Plucking at a 90 degree angle close the bridge will not only give you more of a pic like sound but will also make those 16th notes more aricullte and clean . That way you can also mute with your palm and thumb . A Jaco trick !

Just say NO to string rattle ,OR ;_______ String Rattle , Nein Danke ! !!!!

Wolf

s_wood · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2015, 11:59:01 AM »

Totally agree with bigredbass's post above. That's a great summary of the setup process.

I also agree that a string height of 4/32 for your B string is not really low action. I routinely set my B string at 3/32 (measured at the 12th fret) with no problems. A couple of thoughts, though. Make sure that you are actually measuring from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret as that's the distance that we are referring to. The problem you are describing sounds like it could be that your neck is too flat for your playing style. I measure my relief at .010 at the 9th fret, which I would describe subjectively as pretty flat. When I dig in with my right hand fingers I get that click that you might be describing, but I want to.

One way of checking whether it's string height that's too low or a neck with not enough relief is to play at the 5th fret and below, between the 12th and 15th fret, and then up around the 20th - 24th fret. If your string height is too low for your playing style there should be buzzes up and down the neck. If the buzzes are mostly above the 12th fret there is probably too much relief. If the buzzes are at the 5th fret and below there's probably not enough relief.

My experience is that when basses leave the Alembic factory they are set up perfectly. String height won't move without human intervention or a change in string gauge or type, but the relief in your neck will absolutely change with weather, as the fingerboard dries out over time, as the bass ages or also with a change in string type or gauge. If your bass once played perfectly but does no longer, I'll bet that the relief has changed.

One last point is that one's setup is a big contributor to one's tone. All things being equal, a super low action a flat neck and low string heights) sounds different than a medium or higher action. So, our choices are based not only on what feels good but also on what sounds good.

Now, it's time to whip out the truss rod wrench

wick5 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2015, 02:59:42 PM »

Gents,
Thanks for your detailed imput. I've always had others adjust my basses for the most part. I play 'em, clean 'em, and restring 'em! So things like truss rod and nut adjustments just plain scare me. When a Fender neck has to be unbolted, I leave the room like an scared, expectant father. A week ago, after reading Joey's set up post, I adjusted the action higher on the bass and treble ends of the bridge because I felt the action was too low and wanted to get any clicking out.
The bass came with a sweet low action that I loved when playing at home. But on a gig I would tend to dig a little harder and click.
I live on the coast of South Carolina and have my bass on a guitar stand 24/7. Maybe humidity slightly is having an effect, but the neck looks beautifully straight to me.
After reading these posts the last several days and realizing that my string height is considered on the high side, I just lowered the bass side bridge from 4/32 to 3/32 of an inch and it plays great. The 12th and 24th frets both measure 3/32 of an inch.
Believe me guys, I know it must feel right to me regardless of other people's settings, but I love hearing these opinions and suggestions and string heights and all stuff!

(Message edited by wick5 on December 04, 2015)

bigredbass · « **Reply #9 on:** December 05, 2015, 08:06:37 AM »

I leave the room, too, when a Fender-style neck is unbolted: I'm always very concerned that those big wood screws are going back in the same holes may not always go back to where they were previously.

I'll never understand why Fender does not, once and for all, standardize a $10 production change and use metal bolts into threaded inserts and have all truss rods emerge at the peghead end. It's a total pain to try and adjust the traditional Fender truss rod at the last fret end, and with metal screws into inserts, adjusting neck angle would be a breeze, with or without including 'micro-tilt'.

I understand that Fender's stock and trade is marketing 50's technology, but geez, even Harleys run fuel injection and anti-lock brakes. Now if they could just fix that paint-shaker imitation . . . .

Joey