Author Topic: Electronic tuners  (Read 1366 times)

jazzyvee

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Electronic tuners
« on: December 22, 2015, 05:06:59 PM »
Last week I bought a TC Electronic Polytune clip tuner.
It seems to work really well on guitars and bass except my Series I shorty and only on the E string. When I play the open E- string it shows E for a split second then shows the note B as long as the note sustains. However if I play a harmonic or note at the 12th it shows E and if I play the note 'E on any other place on the bass it shows correctly. Is this something to do with the harmonics being more predominant on that string? Could it be the strings are old?  
 
I've  had the bass a month and a half now and the bass still has the strings on that It came to me with so I have no idea what strings are on the bass or even how long they have been on the bass.
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flpete1uw

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2015, 05:29:56 PM »
Jazzy,
 I use the Planet Waves clip on's on my basses. They work pretty well but they are a bit of a black art to get to work consistently. Couple of things to try is play around with the location of where its clipped on to head stock, you'd be surprised. Another habit I got into is being that these units sample  roughly every ~1/2 second wait until it settles before you hit the note again. So hit note adjust wait till settled repeat.  
Usually I find the D and G strings work well A and E need some playing around with. Also sometimes I will A/B with a portable plug in tuner if questionable. I find the clip on's work pretty well even when checking with harmonics.
Hope this helps some,
Pete

ed_zeppelin

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 08:53:12 PM »
David Fung's post in this thread explains a lot about tuners.  
 
(Thanks to Dave Houck for enshrining it in the must reads section.)

edwin

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 10:02:29 PM »
I've been through a lot of tuners. Most of the inexpensive ones still leave you out of tune. The Sonic Research Turbo Tuner seems like the top of the heap, followed by the Peterson tuners. The best bargain is probably the Peterson iStrobotuner iPhone app at around $10.
 
All of the above are very quick and very accurate. When the bass is out of tune, the whole band is out of tune.

lbpesq

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2015, 08:04:48 AM »
+1 on the Sonic Research.  I have one on my pedalboard.  The relatively new TC Electronics Polytone Clip is cool, though the polytone readout doesn't always match the individual string readout.  And, after using it for a month, I find the polytone ability to be interesting but an unnecessary gimmick.   My favorite clip-on is the Peterson Stroboclip.
 
I also read somewhere that, when tuning, you should pluck the string above the 12th fret to get a purer tone with less overtones.  This does seem to work for me.
 
Bill, tgo

bigredbass

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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2015, 08:52:06 AM »
BOSS TU-80:  Cheap, reference pitches, metronome, goes to low B, chromatic or presets for guitar or bass(es), 'over/under' red LCD's, takes AA's. IF it had a backlit LCD, it would be perfect.
 
Joey

hammer

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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2015, 09:22:01 AM »
I use the Peterson Stroboclip and I really like it. No difficulties using it with my 4-string basses as I've found what appears to be the sweet spot on each headstock as far as placement goes. However, I have found it doesn't work quite as well with the 6-string Europa where placement options are quite limited.
 
I also did read in someone's post on tuners about using the 12th fret and have been doing that ever since.  Seems to work well for me.

StephenR

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2015, 09:44:13 AM »
I use the Peterson StroboFlip. Would like to try the Peterson clip-on tuner. I have a cheap clip-on tuner to use for convenience but wouldn't trust it to use on stage.

pierreyves

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2015, 10:10:09 AM »
I use the easy, simple, cheap Korg pitchblack rack mounter:
 
http://www.korg.com/us/products/tuners/pitchblack_pro/

gtrguy

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2015, 11:19:49 AM »
A lot of tuners don't seem to like to track the low notes on a bass. It can be a real pain, especially for 5 and 6 string bass owners.  
 
I often have to use the harmonic to be able to use several tuners that I own on bass low notes. Of course, the bass needs to be strobed in well for the harmonic to work like that. I have a Korg DTR-1 rack mount, a Korg DT-10 floor unit, a Boss TU-3 is on my guitar pedal board, and I have an old tube-power Peterson strobe tuner.
 
All of them are hard to read on the bass low notes.
 
I am surprised some company has not invented a tuner just for bass that addresses this issue.

jalevinemd

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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2015, 11:21:58 AM »
Bill,
 
When you say above the 12th fret do you mean directly over it or anywhere between frets 13 and the end of the neck?

sonicus

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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 11:27:37 AM »
My little sweet KORG GA-40 works well for me . I also have an old SABINE RT-1601 rack tuner that works well .  
 
Wolf

lbpesq

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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 11:37:44 AM »
Jonathan:
 
Right over #12, though I don't think it makes a huge difference if you are a little in front of or behind it.
 
I used to have a Boss stompbox tuner (TU-2?), until I played an outdoor gig in bright sunlight and couldn't see the readout.  
 
Bill, tgo

hankster

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2015, 06:29:04 PM »
My TC Electronics amp has a built in tuner, and the remote footswitch has a digital readout for the tuner, which is great.  Very accurate tuner, or so it seems to these old ears.  I've used various clip-ons at various gigs and sessions when I don't have my own amp (as few as possible of those!) and found the Korg to be pretty good.
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ed_zeppelin

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Electronic tuners
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2015, 01:27:15 AM »
Equal Temperament (dividing the octave into twelve equally spaced notes) was invented by a Chinese prince named Zhu Zaiyu in 1580.  
 
He built this instrument with 12 strings to use to tune the other instruments in the Imperial Orchestra. This is the world's first tuner:
 


 
 
Here are some various methods of solving the shortcomings of equal temperament.
 
TrueTemperament.com  


 
 
That G string really jumps out at you, doesn't it? In fact, Jimmy Johnson was just talking about a dead spot on the G string. There ya go. A picture is worth ...
 
Buzz Feiten's tuning system relies on a shelved nut to compensate for the weirdness in the G and B strings (it really wasn't until Anders Thidell created the True Temperament fingerboard that we could see how out of whack frets actually are):


 
 
Earvana uses a similar approach:


 
 
A homemade solution:


 
 
Personally, I think the best solution would be a combination of True Temperament's wiggly frets and Novax slanted frets:
 


 
 
Lastly, I'd like to quote a section from the True Temperament FAQ:
 
quote:What?s wrong with straight frets?
 
Standard equal tempered fret spacing is calculated from one single piece of information about the instrument ? the scale length. ... A divisor constant is used to determine the locations of the frets. The scale length divided by the constant gives the position of the first fret. The remaining length after subtracting the first fret, divided by the same constant, gives the position of the second fret, and so on.
 
The divisor used by all but a vanishingly small percentage of modern guitar builders is 17.817152, a figure arrived at by way of the logarithmic function ?the 12th root of 2″ (1.0594631). This results in precise mathematical fret spacing with the 12th fret at the exact centre of the calculated scale length. If the calculation is repeated for 24 frets, the distance from the 24th fret to the theoretical bridge saddle position will be exactly one-fourth of the calculated scale length. ...
 
But this mathematical model is a gross oversimplification. It ignores virtually every physical parameter which governs the behaviour of vibrating strings, except one ? speaking length. Tension and mass are not even considered.
 
The model assumes an ?ideal? or ?perfect? string ? one which only exists in theory, not in the real world. It assumes, firstly, that the strings have no stiffness. Secondly, it assumes that all strings behave identically, regardless of their thickness, whether they are plain or wound, and the material they are made of. Thirdly, it assumes zero string height ? and completely ignores what happens when the strings are pressed down on the frets!
 
The frequency of a vibrating string is determined by three factors: the speaking length, its mass, and the tension applied. All three of these factors are affected to varying degrees when a string is pressed down on a fret. Along the neck, the length and mass decrease by 50% per octave. Changing the length affects the stiffness. The tension is affected by fretting the string, as the string height is not zero. Pressing the string to the fret stretches the string slightly, increasing the tension and thus sharpening the notes produced.
 
The strings themselves vary considerably in diameter and construction (plain or wound), and thus react differently to being fretted. One single adjustment per string at the bridge (?intonation?) cannot possibly fully compensate for all these parameters at once, as they all vary in different degrees on different strings.
 
The only way to fully compensate for all these parameters is to adjust each and every string-to-fret contact point on the fingerboard separately, until each and every note plays the target frequency exactly. This, which is impossible on a guitar with traditional, one-piece, straight frets ...