Oh my aching back....

[petehnek]

That stinks about the back.  Aside from the Alembic issue, bad disks can totally dominate your life. I had a herniated disk between L5-S1 and couldn't even sleep without taking a couple percocet.  I ran through the litany of treatments (PT, TENS unit, ultra sound, acupuncture, various pills, injections etc) and finally saw a neurosurgeon and got a microdiscectomy.  It was like magic.  In pre-op, I was in pain, and in post op I wasn't.  I spent 1 night in the hospital and was not allowed to pick up anything over 15 pounds for 6 weeks.  Immediately after that I got into a massive head on car crash (no injuries outside of bruising, always wear your seatbelt kids) and shortly after THAT I crashed on my bicycle and broke my elbow.  Happily I am past those injuries and my surgery was unaffected. I am now in the best condition of my life, taking boxing classes and stuff, and  over 2 years later I couldn't be happier with the surgery.
 
Now every case is different and maybe it wouldn't be right for you, but I'd look into it.  Microdiscectomy is like arthroscopic surgery in that they go in with a laser and remove the bit of disk matter that is compressing the nerve and causing you pain.  If that is why you're having problems, the surgey is a good solution.  I stayed away from anything that involved fusing or removing disks, cause that just leads to more problems 10 years down the road.  My insurance fully covered it, but I'm in the US.
 
Hope it all works out for you.  Believe me, I feel your pain.  
 
cheers
Pete

[tbrannon]

Shaun,
 
My story is exactly like the one that Pete detailed above- except my discectomy wasn't micro- I've got a 3 inch scar around L5-S1 to prove it. I had my surgery 1 year ago today, and I'm back to running, biking, swimming and lifting weights daily- there is hope.
 
Additionally, my healthcare situation might be somewhat more similar to what you're facing.  I am in NZ and had to battle the socialized medicine thing- it was ugly for about a year, but the disc eventually quit on me and I was rushed to the hospital (I won't mention the lying on the floor of the garage and the crying like a baby part).  As a result of the Emergency admittance, I was seen on an emergency basis and had my surgery 4 days after taking a ride with sirens and flashing lights.
 
Hang in there and know that things can get better- don't sell that Alembic.  Someday (hopefully soon) your back will be better and you'll be glad you kept that Triple-O.
 
Toby

[bigbadbill]

Once again, thanks guys; these posts are great.  
 
Sam, I think Ken can do it too  (and better than I can!) but I must admit my naming my bass hasn't helped thoughts of getting rid! A word of advice...don't do it! Now it's a PERSON!
 
Pete and Toby, thanks for your very informative posts. Pete, your experience sounds amazing, and it's certainly something I may look into (you're right about it dominating your life though - I'd actually give up playing altogether if I could go back to how I used to be, and that is saying a heck of a lot). A friend's wife had something similar I believe; I haven't seen them in a long while (they live in a different part of the country) but I may drop a line to discuss, and take the opportunity to catch up anyway. I know she has had a few problems but she may not have taken exactly the same route. The guys I've seen were both orthopaedic surgeons; I believe she was also eventually treated by a neurosurgeon. The last consultant I saw said it wasn't worth me seeing a neurosurgeon as they wouldn't consider it worth their while (or words to that effect). I was like, thanks! As I say, I've got some more physio due in January (this time with scans to work with) and I'll see what's said then and take it from there. Glad to hear you're fit and well now, and best of luck for the future.
 
As for your story Toby, that's frightening!  Glad it eventually worked out ok. As I said previously, the problem I also seem to have encountered is that if you're still walking, you're not serious enough to bother with (at least to the NHS). I understand to some degree because they have higher priorities and their resources are stretched so thin, but it doesn't help me a great deal. What really does annoy me is when I first started getting trouble the doctor I was referred to just kept saying, we'll see how it is in a couple of months. After the third time I blew up, which is really not like me at all. And then when I first went to the chiropracter he said, if only you'd got here sooner. Grrrr.  
 
Anyway, I'll plod on and see how it works out. If the bass does eventually have to go, I'm trying to think in terms of it being like climbing Everest; at least I've achieved it - it doesn't mean I have to live there, if you get my drift. But I'd much sooner keep it.....
 
Thanks once again to one and all, and to those of you with back problems, you have my utmost sympathies. To those now recovered, best of luck and may the Force (or insert your own equivalent) be with you!  
 
P.S. I don't often get chance to post these days, but I really love this forum. I really don't think there is another like it. Everyone should be proud of themselves!

[haddimudd]

Shaun,
 
I have been thinking for years (although not on a very regular basis) about a way to get my instrument's weight off the shoulders and more towards the hips. I once had the opportunity to wear a SteadyCam harness for professional film cameras and it does exactly that: It puts all the weight of the harness and all the counter-balance weights towards your hips. Although in this particular case the harness still covers the back and shoulders too, but both are more involved in steering the camera than actually in carrying it.
 
I always wanted to adapt that concept to my heavy doubleneck bass. The major issue here would be that you wouldn't want a full and complicated-to-put-on harness. As a musician you should be able to quickly strap and unstrap your instrument. But then again it wouldn't have to be able to do all the complicated stuff a SteadyCam is built for, so maybe there is a chance to use the basic concept of the hip belt and get it adapted to a more user friendly strap-like fixture.
 
I haven't figured out the right concept on how to combine those different needs in one simple product, but it surely is on my to do list. Of course until then I always can (and love) to play my bass seated, especially since I don't do stage performances at the moment. I understand how a triple cutout causes problems there, it is the reason why I never can own a triple omega bass - I really am much of a seated player, probably 90% of my entire playing.
 
But maybe you too may want to brainstorm in that direction and invent a hip belt solution for your bass. If ever I will find a good way that works for me I will share it with the forum.
 
Until then, all the best for your back!  
 
Hartmut

[haddimudd]

Oh, sorry folks, I just realized too late that Rich in post #5 has already made the same suggestions that I just redundantly did. So much for long threads and not reading through all of it before posting, sorry!  
 
Still, all the best wishes with your back!
 
Hartmut
 
(Message edited by haddimudd on November 19, 2006)

[richbass939]

Hartmut,
I would rather see potentially helpful advise mentioned twice than not at all.  Anything that keep us playing into our middle or later years is worth its weight in gold.  I faced my broken left collarbone at age 19!!  I had been playing bass for less than a year, loved it and wasn't about to give it up.  However, I couldn't stand a strap over the left shoulder.
Shaun, how high or low do you wear your bass?  Could you post a picture of yourself playing standing up?  
Rich

[bigbadbill]

Hartmut, many thanks for your thoughts and as Rich says, there's no problem at all giving good advice twice. It's funny, because I used to do most of my home playing seated, and gradually weaned myself off it so I could practice in gig conditions as it were. I'm kind of regretting that now, because I feel so wrong playing whilst seated.
 
Rich, I wear my bass kind of over my stomach, neither very high nor very low. Wearing it high just cripples me. Playing lower helps a little, but there's a point at which the bass just ends up flapping around (plus I can't play it at Jimmy Page height!). I haven't got any pictures of me playing the Alembic that I can post, and given that I was at the chiropracter Friday I'm keeping well away from actually wearing it for the time being, but I'll see if I can post something or other (it'll probably be wearing a Rickenbacker I'm afraid, my other love).  
 
 

 
This is me doing the power-pop thing with my 4001CS at a recent charity gig (hence the wristband).....I've actually raised my bass ever so slightly since the gig, probably one hole on the strap. BTW, I use an Overwater strap for the Alembic which is similar to a Comfort one.

[David Houck]

I may be way out of line here but ..
 
And one picture isn't much evidence to be forming conclusions with but ..
 
In the picture, it does not look like you have your back straight.  It appears to me that your back is curved forward and that you are compressing the lower vertebrae.  If it were me and I had my back curved like that while playing bass, it would take me a lot of work on the yoga mat to get things right again.
 
It seems to me to be the case that the higher you have your bass, the less pressure on your lower back.  It just seems that when the bass is low on the body, the player tends to lean forward more, rolling the back in the process, and putting the spine in an uncomfortable position.
 
I didn't want to mention this before because it seems from the earlier posts in this thread that you've probably already tried everything, and I didn't want to post my experience because it's similar to some posted by others, but ..
 
I had back surgery, laminectomy of L5, for a severly ruptured disk in 1988.  I subsequently did two years of physical therapy, weight machines, walking, swimming, before the pain finally subsided.  Until a few years ago, I continued using the weight machine and walking to keep the muscles strong enough to do the work that the L5 used to do.  Then ..
 
A few years ago I discontinued the weight machine and switched to yoga.  Huge difference.
 
Again, I may be totally off base and one picture isn't enough to know anything, but I did think I should mention that it seems to me helpful to keep the back straight, in it's natural position, with the shoulders rolled back.  And a good (highly qualified with decades of experience and training) yoga instructor in a private one-on-one situation could possibly be very beneficial.  And I'm not talking about exotic positions; just learning how to properly stand, bend forward, and breathe can make a huge difference.
 
Again, I hope I'm not out of line here.  It was just one picture and for all I know you always keep your back straight and have practiced or currently practice yoga.

[adriaan]

Have to agree with Dave there: make sure you keep  your back, neck and shoulders straight. Adjust the strap so the instrument sits where your arms and hands need it to sit, not the other way around. Even small changes can make a difference.

[bigbadbill]

Hi guys. Just to clarify, I'm actually mid solo (!) there so was kind of getting into it. But keeping the back straight is a problem, to be honest. If my bass was made of balsa, fine, but even an 8 pound bass is a bit of a problem. And unfortunately my spine curves to one side also, which doesn't help my posture (and I'm sure this is exacerbated by the fact that I work at a computer all day, which is terrible for your posture even without back problems, no matter how much attention you pay!) . With regards to the strap height thing, trust me, I've tried every possible alternative, on half a dozen different straps. If I wear the bass any higher, I have terrible upper back problems (partly from the disc and partly scar tissue from an old injury), far worse than if I play it lower, so I have a very small workable margin. I just cannot have the bass much higher than shown in the picture, otherwise I can hardly use my arms the next day. I even tried it with my old headless swamp ash Sei bass (which certainly weighed no more than 8 pounds, and probably less), and that was too much.  Still, whereas I have tried pretty much everything else, yoga is something I haven't done yet, and will attempt to look into following my next assessment.  
 
I've posted another pic which is maybe slightly clearer...
 

 
Again, the head tilt is momentary, not constant. Harold, our stand in guitarist for the evening, is obviously showing how it should be done

[bigbadbill]

One thing I should mention is that when wearing my Triple O, you could put a rod up my back but within minutes of putting the bass on, my legs start to tingle and go cold, amongst other things.....it affects me far, far worse than the Rics.

[keurosix]

Shaun,
Maybe a good drummers throne or keyboard stool with back support will get you off your feet. For the leg, you can try various products to soften the blow of the 3rd bottom omega cut-out. Perhaps a neoprene knee support worn high, or even a gel-pad type of wrist support commonly found in computer stores. Don't give up on your Alembic! Worst case: you could try a lighter guitar with Alembic electronics. Years back I got a Modulus graphite Quantum TBX 5, and added a custom Alembic Activator circuit. The weight was considerably less than my Series 1, so I sold her. Bummer! Now I long for it back.
Kris

[richbass939]

Shaun,  I sent you an e-mail and it bounced.  Send me one with your address (if you like) and I'll e-mail you back.  Please say Alembic in the subject.  It helps me sift through all the junk mail.
If you would prefer to talk on this thread, then that works too.
Rich

[bigbadbill]

Kris, you may be right. You know I've never (so far as I can remember) played a gig seated? I guess I may just have to get used to it, at least when using the Alembic, although as I say it's not comfortable to play seated, but I've been thinking along the same lines as you in terms of padding my leg. Ultimately it all seems a bit of a pain but maybe that's because I'm not used to thinking in terms of playing an instrument I can't just sling round my neck. I guess if I'd been an upright player it probably wouldn't be an issue. Maybe I can get a Robert Fripp-type thing going! Thanks for the advice BTW, it's all much appreciated. I have been considering what lighter options I could go for if it becomes too much, but it really would be a blow to be unable to play what is probably my favourite shape. Still, sometimes needs must, and I'd sooner play something lighter that to my eyes doesn't look as cool than not play at all, or experience severe discomfort whilst so doing.  
 
Rich, sorry about that, I forgot to change to my most recent e-mail address in my profile. If you click on now it should be ok.

[David Houck]

The second picture does look better!
 
The guitar player in my band, because of his back problems, sits on a bar stool at our gigs.