Author Topic: Fretboard oiling thoughts (Read 2446 times)

ed_zeppelin · « **Reply #30 on:** January 06, 2016, 10:16:48 AM »

quote:The permissible exposure limit for benzene is actually 1 ppm rather than 100. I wouldn't want to breathe naphtha all day, but it is definitely not nearly as carcinogenic.

I'm afraid you have it backwards. Admittedly, I'm a bit of a moron (just ask the Foghorn), but it seems to me that an exposure limit of 1 ppm is 100 times more toxic/carcinogenic than something with a limit of 100 ppm.

Especially when the American Cancer Society, the International Agency for Research on Cancer, the
National Toxicology Program, the Environmental Protection Agency, the CDC?s National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the National Cancer Institute (NCI) and the California Environmental Protection Agency (CalEPA) all consider benzene to be a Group 1/A: Known To Be A Human Carcinogen.

From http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927339

quote:Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified A1 (Confirmed for human.) by ACGIH, 1 (Proven for human.) by IARC. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Classified POSSIBLE for human. Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Classified Reproductive system/toxin/female [POSSIBLE].

The substance is toxic to blood, bone marrow, central nervous system (CNS). The substance may be toxic to liver, Urinary System. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.

quote:I wouldn't want to breathe naphtha all day, but it is definitely not nearly as carcinogenic.

Thanks for attempting to clear that up.

gtrguy · « **Reply #31 on:** January 06, 2016, 11:13:00 AM »

WD40 sprayed on a rag and then worked in to the fretboard and then wiped off with a clean rag or T shirt. Doing it for 30 plus years on the same guitars and it works fine. It also cleans up the frets very nicely.

moongerm · « **Reply #32 on:** January 06, 2016, 11:38:05 AM »

I have been using Howards Orange Oil for the past 10 years as recommended to me by Carl Thompson a while back. I used it on my oil finished Carl Thompson bass bodies and fingerboards. I have never had an issue using it. I also now use it on all of my Alembic fingerboards since 2013, including my new custom build. I apply it twice a year at the most and never let it sit to soak in more than 20-30 min before wiping it off very well. Great to know there are so many options, nice thread!

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #33 on:** January 06, 2016, 12:31:39 PM »

I think we've got some wires crossed.

In your first post you quote that the PEL for benzene is 100 ppm, but this is in error. This is actually the PEL for naphtha. The PEL for benzene is correctly noted as 1 ppm, which is much lower than naphtha, and as you correctly state it is more toxic.

These numbers really refer to immediate exposure, and don't take into account the carcinogenicity of benzene versus aliphatic hydrocarbons. Paracelsus and his statement that the dose makes the poison has much truth, but even low doses of carcinogens can result in cancers years later that aren't associated with immediate exposure.

Naphtha and benzene are definitely not the same thing. Naphtha is one of many names for a hydrocarbon mixture that may be called mineral spirits, petroleum ether, petroleum distillates, or lighter fluid (just to name a few). Admittedly some light petroleum distillates may contain trace benzene, but it is quite low in concentration (typically much less than 0.1%). Here is a relevant article: https://www.aiha.org/aihce07/handouts/po129panko.pdf

Edit: I see that I was mistaken, and the PEL for Naphtha is actually 500 ppm, vs the 1 ppm for benzene:

[https://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_260900.html]

[https://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_220100.html]

(Message edited by hydrargyrum on January 06, 2016)

[fixed the links]

(Message edited by adriaan on January 06, 2016)

ed_zeppelin · « **Reply #34 on:** January 06, 2016, 02:25:27 PM »

See? That's what happens when you marry someone far smarter than you: I was right and wrong at the same time, and didn't realize it until someone smarter than me pointed it out.

I subscribe to the Ameri-Zen koan; if a married man is alone in a Forest when a tree falls, is he still wrong?

Thanks for being cool about it. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience. (I'm still not going to gargle with lighter fluid, though.)

I've been wracking what's left of my well-wracked brain to recall who told me that naphtha-is-benzene-is-lighter-fluid and I honestly don't remember. But I know one thing about them: I'll bet he was married.

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #35 on:** January 07, 2016, 07:14:39 AM »

No worries, laboratory safety and environmental health happens to be my field.

Actually, there is a pretty good reason to make the mistake. The chemists of yesteryear all shared an interesting commonality that they had to speak german. The most advanced chemistry journals were published in german, and if you received a chemistry degree before the middle of the last century you were expected to be fluent enough to write and read chemistry journals. This rambling departure comes back to petroleum ether because the german name is petroleum benzin. Benzin sure looks a heck of a lot like benzene, but they are distinct. In fact, benzin is gasoline, which is also just a crude mix of hydrocarbons.

Another thing I wouldn't gargle with.

paulman · « **Reply #36 on:** January 07, 2016, 09:22:17 AM »

Dr. Hibbert: Well, your cholesterol level is lethally high, Homer, but I'm more concerned about your gravy level.

Homer Simpson: Now, wait a second. You doctors have been telling us to drink eight glasses of gravy a day!

Dr. Hibbert: [laughs] Well, you're a little confused.

Homer Simpson: Oh, confused, would we?

Do not gargle with Naphtha. Got it!

paulman · « **Reply #37 on:** January 08, 2016, 09:15:47 AM »

Hey I wanted to removed my humor above and post seriously, but I waited too long it seems. Sorry.

This post scared the crap out of me as I've been using Naphtha for years to clean my fretboards.

So glad it's NOT Benzene. Thanks for the info, and thanks for selling me my first Alembic 11 years ago Kevin! Loved that Skylark...

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #38 on:** January 12, 2016, 08:34:04 AM »

Glad I could provide some relief, and a Skylark.

wick5 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 12, 2016, 08:20:00 PM »

When I change strings, I always remove one string and install the replacement. Then I remove the 2nd string and so forth. This is my understanding of lessening the tension shock of the neck. To oil a neck, I assume all strings must be removed. After oiling, when I restring with new Alembic strings (same gauges), what are the odds of the neck returning to the exact previous relief, or lack thereof?

hammer · « **Reply #40 on:** January 12, 2016, 09:40:51 PM »

I've never had a real difference occur in the relief of a neck on an Alembic bass when I've changed the strings. It's such a fast process. I'm also a bit lazy and when I oil my fretboard I don't take the strings off just loosen them, oil, retighten and play for a couple of days before changing over to the new strings. I find that this keeps the excess oil and gunk I've missed when wiping down the fretboard off my brand new strings.

wick5 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 18, 2016, 08:40:14 AM »

Now that's a practical, good idea!

bigredbass · « **Reply #42 on:** January 18, 2016, 09:54:48 AM »

My results parallel Hammer: I could never figure out a way to change them one-at-a-time and oil the fingerboard.

So I just take them all off, do the fretboard maintenance and then re-string. I got to admit that doing it with the old strings and letting the board fully absorb the oil and putting new strings a few days later is a smart idea.

I've never noticed in doing this that the neck relief changed appreciably on my basses. YRMV.
I'd posit that the laminations in concert with the 1/4 fingerboards are a stiffer unit than a typical neck. I run my fingerboards so straight that occasionally I need to re-introduce some relief, so I'll tune up to F# or G and leave it for a day or two, than cinch up the nuts to take up the bit of slack I've acquired. So going the other way, I'm not surprised that it would not instantly change for the 20 minutes or so when all five strings are off.

Joey

jazzyvee · « **Reply #43 on:** January 18, 2016, 12:11:44 PM »

what does YRMV mean?

lbpesq · « **Reply #44 on:** January 18, 2016, 12:12:39 PM »

I, too, remove all strings at the same time and try to use the old strings for a couple of days after lemon oil treatment as the strings seem to pick up a little residue just after oiling. In my experience, removing the strings for 20-30 minutes for cleanup and oil treatment has never adversely effected the truss rod adjustment.

Bill, tgo