Double thumbing Technique

[jazzyvee]

I've done something crazy and added Marcus Miller's version of What is hip? to the set list for my next gig at the end of this month. I've tried the technique a few times before but it's not been really something I've needed to learn it for a gig before now.  
 
I've been trying it on my Elan 4 as it has a bit more space between the bottom of the neck and the P-style pickup than my Europa's and the string spacing is greater. I thought that would be easier but I seem to keep getting my thumb stuck mainly under the G-string on the upstroke. So then I've tried it on my new Europa 5 with narrow bridge spacing and whilst it seems easier the problem then of trying to keep the both the  B and E-strings quiet whilst holding down the groove is a bit of a challenge.  
 
 
I'm sure this is probably the worst start for learning this technique but i like the challenge. Any advice would be welcome.
 
Help!!!!!!
 
 
Jazzyvee

[terryc]

My 22 year old son does this with ease and has been doing so since he was about 16(I hate him for it!!! not really, he is a great kid)
When he first started he did it really slow on some simple lines then increased the speed.
When I watch him I am assuming THIS is the only way to get it right.
I cannot do it for the life of me and stick to the old 'Mark King/Stan Clarke' style.
best of luck jazzyvee

[edwin]

I think there is a video out there of Victor Wooten explaining how to practice it in pretty simple terms. Terry is right though, start slow and simple and practice it until you get it to where it needs to be.  
 
The first person I encountered who had this technique down was a bassist who did a clinic at Berklee back in 1983. He figured it out during the time that the police in Cincinnati confused him with someone else who was wanted on a murder charge, so he hid out in a basement for 6 months and did nothing but practice all day and this is one of the techniques he was able to master in that time. Eventually they caught the real criminal. I wish I could remember who this guy was. A great player who at that time made his living playing in pit orchestras.

[David Houck]

Now that's an interesting story.

[jazzyvee]

I've been trying very slowly to get the technique right just like your son Terry and I agree it's the right way for that and most other things.  I'll have another look on you tube and see if I can find something as I think I may be doing it in a way that is working against me. I use the fleshy pad of my thumb on the downstroke and the top of my finger nail for the upstroke at the moment as there doesn't seem enough space to get the top fleshy part of my thumb under the string for the up stroke.
 
I've decided to drop that track from the set now and maybe leave it for another gig in the next decade hahaha.
jazzyvee

[edwin]

The upstroke should be on the same part of your thumb as the downstroke. this makes it a lot more efficient. It takes a while to build up a callous there that creates enough of a ridge to catch the string. For me, it's a little toward the tip of the thumb from where the knuckle is.  These days I don't really use this technique much anymore, so that part of my thumb has lost most of its callous.

[jazzyvee]

Hi Edwin, do you mean you use the side of  your thumb plectrum style?
I read in an interview where Marcus said he used one side of his thumb for the down and the other side for the upstroke.
I guess there are different techniques.

[elwoodblue]

Here's Victor showing his double thumbing technique,
 I'm going to have to start practicing this,
...here's the video :
 
here

[jazzyvee]

I see what Edwin means now. I found a video clip of Marcus doing it and he uses a different technique to Victor and gets more snap to the tone.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7M425V-kuA
I think that's the technique I need to study.
 
 
Jazzyvee

[elwoodblue]

I see what you mean Jazzyvee,
 
thanks for the link,

[edwin]

They look fairly similar to me, although I hear a very different tone. In trying to teach this technique to people, I've discovered that most people end up using a slightly different technique because everyone has different shaped thumbs, so it might be that you end up with something different from both of them!
 
I think their basses have very different tones from the get go, which might account for a large amount of the difference. I think that Victor also has a different touch on the string.

[811952]

I foresee a very sore thumb in my future...
 
I can see where control (aim) is going to be a problem area for me, as I am inclined to flail..
 
John

[edwin]

Don't try to control it too much. I noticed that the better at I got, the more relaxed I could be with my thumb, almost to the point where it feels like I'm just throwing it at the strings. Like anything else, it's just a matter of practice.

[jazzyvee]

I am getting a pretty sore thumb and it's kind of nostalgic as it reminds me of when I was first learning to play. But I'm getting there and we tried it at rehearsal this Tuesday and although we didn't get all the way through it. It's within sight and the band like the groove we got with it so much they now won't let me drop it so I have a week now to get it right before the gig.
 
Edwin I have been naturally getting more relaxed with the technique and it does get more comfortable that way, more so if I start working on it in the middle or end of my practice session  rather than at the beginning before my fingers and thumbs have warmed up and become more flexible.
 
Another rehearsal tonight to see how we get it down.
Jazzyvee

[edwin]

And another hired thumbslinger is born!