The Dragon's Wing

[rogertvr]

My very own opinion, based on my comparison with my Rickenbacker 4001, and three Status basses...
 
The Design - I have now owned the DW for two years, from new. The body of the Dragon's Wing is mostly my own design - I have the various drawings dated Friday 21 March 2003 that I drew on baking parchment to prove it. Headstock designed by Susan Wickersham. Chinese Dragon inlay - not sure who designed this at Alembic, but words simply aren't enough - stunning.
 
Living With It - pain in the arse, even if it is beautifully built. The neck moves about like there is no tomorrow. The whole instrument can be adjusted for a fantastic playing set-up, only for it to be unplayable three hours later.
 
The Signature electronics are limited in capability - they are easily left behind by more modern instruments. It's impossible to ADD to the sound - for anyone who is familiar with analog synthesizers, you can only SUBTRACT from the sound. Apart from using the Q switch to emphasise the attack on a note. Limited functionality and 80's thinking in this digital age.
 
Verdict: It's expensive art. Pay your money, make your choice...

[the_8_string_king]

Wow.  I've NEVER heard such comments about either an Alembics neck, nor the electronics.
 
I can't help wondering if there is an issue with the truss rods.
 
Just out of curiousity, could you tell me what basses easily leave behind the Signature electronics?  I've never heard another bass with electronics even close to signature electronics in capability -other than other Alembics.
 
Has anyone else had neck issues like this?  I've never heard this before from any Alembic owner.  Do you have a super-thin custom neck, maybe.
 
I recently gave my custom Alembic it's first, slight tweaking of the truss rods.  Of course, mine has a particularily awesome 13 piece extra-super-strong laminated neck made of ebony AND purpleheart and maple.

[ajdover]

I too own a DW - I believe mine is possibly the second or third one built.  A few comments if I may.
 
I have seen the drawings Roger refers to above.  I can't speak to the date they were created as I was physically not there when they were, but they do show several iterations of the bodystyle in development.  Whether Alembic or Roger is the architect of the bodystyle is a matter between him and Alembic, so I will stay out of it.  I will say it is a very beautiful design, and more comfortable to play, sitting and standing, than one would think.  
 
Roger is correct when he states that Alembic electronics, as configured in the Signature Electronics, are primarily designed to subtract frequencies rather than boost (unless, of course, you add the boost switches as on my Europa).  I don't personally view this as a negative however, and I find the set up very versatile.  I can get Jaco like tones out of mine, as well as Entwistle, Clarke, etc.  Of course, tone control and set up is a very personal matter, and one of individual taste.  I also use an SF-2 in my rig, so if I can't get the tone I'm looking for, regardless of instrument, someone should just shoot me now!
 
The neck - I've not experienced the problems Roger has with his.  From what I understand, Roger's neck is modeled after that of his beloved Rickenbacker 4001.  If his Rick is like the two that I own (a '76 and a '77), the neck is relative thin both width and thickness-wise.  I'm not sure how this plays out in truss rod adjustments and movement.  Roger has three purpleheart lams in his neck; I only have two.  What effect this has on the neck movement I just can't comment on.
 
I love my Dragon's Wing, but again, set up, neck profiles, tone shaping, etc. are all a matter of personal taste.  If Roger is experiencing the problems he states he is, it must be very disappointing for him given the expense of what is obviously a very finely crafted and beautiful instrument otherwise.  Again, I've not experienced these problems, so my take is that perhaps there is something about Rog's instrument that needs to be looked at, I don't know.  Again, that is a matter between Rog and Alembic, and I'll stay out of it as it is none of my business.
 
Rog is right about one thing - it's your money, so pick the bass that works for you.  For me, that's Alembic.
 
Best regards,
 
Alan

[rogertvr]

For those of you who have read my post, you've probably already worked-out that I have anger fuelled by disappointment regarding this instrument!  Which Alan has already spotted btw...
 
Regarding the body design, Susan added two extra curves to the bottom of the body shape I had drawn out and improved access to the 23rd and 24th frets.  Both worthwhile modifications I will add.
 
I owned a JayDee for 10 years, the electronics on that were more flexible than the Signature ones. It's my own fault I suppose, I should have understood the Signature electronics more before deciding on them. But for what they cost, I am surprised that it's not possible to add to the sound. It's more like a passive sound system than an active one.  My Status basses have active electronics that allow the boost and cut of the sound, which I find more flexible.
 
The neck is modelled on my 4001. Alembic did a fantastic job of the modelling, the neck is lovely! The trouble is, I set-up the bass, the neck will move whilst I play it from the heat of my hand! It always goes convex and not concave too, so the strings catch against the frets and it becomes unplayable. It will do that sitting on its stand over a period of a few hours too. Mica assured me (as it's done this from day one) that the bass will work out that it's not a tree any longer and will settle down. It's two years old now and it's no different.
 
Disappointed?  Yes, definitely and even more so when I consider the cost of it.
 
I've had this disappointment bubbling round for some considerable time now.  I thought it time I spoke out, freedom of speech and all that.  I'm not pointing the finger of blame at anyone, I'm just telling it like it is.

[bigbadbill]

Roger, I can only think that the problem lies with your specific neck; maybe the particular pieces of wood used. I've had a custom built (non-Alembic) bass before that had the same problem and it was utterly atypical; the next one I got was fine. Also had the same problem with my first Jaydee, whilst the second was fine.  
 
My Alembic doesn't seem to have any movement problems whatsoever so far, and obviously I'm hoping none develop. One thing to factor in is that you also have an extremely low action; my action is considered very low by everyone who plays my basses and yours is much lower than mine. As for sound; I find the electronics to be fine for most things, but I've never tended to use the normal cut/boost facilities on most modern active basses; I tend to like to change the actual quality of the sound (as per Alembic) rather than just add bottom/middle/top to a sound I've already got (I tend to do that at the amp). BTW, I'm still hopefully working towards another Status at some time; not sure which one though! It's unfortunate that it hasn't worked out for you, but unfortunately that's one of the dangers of having a custom built bass, and which is why I'm currently on my third! I suppose the good news is you're obviously happy with your Statii. One interesting thing; I don't know if you've experienced this but many people seem to think Rickenbackers have fragile and unstable necks, but (possibly barring my old P Bass) mine seem to be as stable as anything I've ever played.

[mica]

It's been sometime since you've communicated to me about the state of your bass, Roger. I think the last time we communicated at length was when we expidited a small improvement to the Signature electronics.
 
If there is a physical problem with a neck on a bass that we made, we need to know about it, so thanks for giving us the word here. Sadly, in order to do anything about it, I'll need to get the bass in my hands, and I may need it for a considerable amount of time depending on the remedy (which can be as extreme as making a new neck).  
 
Our distributor in the UK makes a few trips here annually - maybe he can carry the bass over on his next trip. Would you like me to contact him on your behalf?
 
There isn't any need to let disappointment bubble around. Just let us know what's going to on and we'll endeavor to make it right.

[rogertvr]

My 4001 neck was unstable for the first 12 months of its life.  After that, it's been mega-stable. That's why I've left the DW until now, 24 months should be long enough surely?
 
The easiest way to describe what happens to the neck is that it's like the old bi-metal bar experiment from your Physics class at school, where one metal expands at a different rate to the other so the bar bends a little.
 
Mica - thanks for the offer. It's probably best if we discuss this off the Club.  I'll e-mail you.

[grynchin]

I am nobody here, but I am curious to any fellow members out there who will answer.  I am not a virtuoso or even less than mediocar(spelling?), but I'm curious about this neck problem.
 
These are my specific questions.  Would some average joe like me even have an issue with this bass in particular?  I do not adjust anything on my bass or guitars except string action once every couple years.  In other words, I don't set my action up by a dial indicator(thats for you machinists).  I don't have finesse, I play hard and fret hard.  I don't play with the levels much, I don't hear what a lot of people hear.  
 
So, all that being said, I just want to know would somebody like me even know there was an issue with this neck, or would only really sophisticated, good musicians notice(Keep in mind, I don't care if anyone is at fault or right or wrong, I just want to know what caliber of people or situation is here).

[crgaston]

Hi Brandon!
 
Whaddaya mean, nobody here! We love you!(...just don't invite me over for gravy!)  
 
How's your Mesa?  
 
As to whether you'd have this problem with this bass,it's hard  to say for sure, but...the lower the action is, the more important perfection becomes.  I imagine that with heavy strings and a high action, the type you need for hard plucking and hard fretting, there wouldn't be a backbow problem.  Sounds like the issue, though, is that it's moving enough to make it not just mediocre, but actually unplayable for Roger.  People expect an instrument of Alembic's cost and reputation to actually perform for them; to take the best action they have ever played, and to HOLD it. You can get a high action out of almost any bass, even one with a less-than-perfect neck and uneven frets.  When you buy Alembic, you have a right to expect more (within the limits of physics, of course).

[bsee]

Unfortunately for neck stability, wood is alive.  I believe Roger is located in the UK and they have pretty famous weather.  I suspect that is at least one part of the problem he's having.
 
There are often trade-offs to be made.  If you want a skinny neck, then it will be more subject to moving with changes in weather (primarily humidity).  If you like a clubby neck, then it will tend to be more stable.  Choice of woods and number of laminations will have an impact as well, with more laminations tending to create a stiffer and more stable neck.
 
If you want a neck that doesn't move at all, I would recommend a graphite necked Zon (I don't like Modulus much and never played a Status) or a plywood neck like the old Kubicki or new Parker Fly.  The Ric basses I have played have been pretty bulky necks as well, so that might explain why the 4001 is holding up better.
 
On the other hand, if you want a thin wood neck in an environment with variable humidity, you have two choices.  Build a good relationship with the local tech or get comfortable with making truss rod adjustments yourself.  The adjustments aren't particularly difficult, so I recommend that path where possible.
 
Alembic basses are outstanding instruments, and the necks do tend to become more stable with age.  I have one of the thinnest necks they've made and it is very stable.  It's only 2-3 years old and, so far, it has moved twice a year when the weather makes big changes.  My two 15+ year old Alembics don't move at all.
 
-bob

[grynchin]

Ah, mesa, mesa, mesa.  That's all anybody cares about anymore, except me!  No really, its still out to pasture for now.  It's not because I'm that lazy, but I am in the middle of making my own guitar.  So, the past year of collecting tools and knowledge have been occupying my time.  Upon completion of it, which I hope to be in a month or so, I will post some pics of the guitar and the infamous exploding mesa!
 
And as far as the neck description, cool.  I definitley understand the level of expectation that you would have for an instrument like that.
 
Thank you Charles for your input.  Oh yeah, mediocre, I knew I had it wrong.

[bob]

I encourage you to work this out directly with Alembic, Roger. And though at first reading I thought perhaps we were having a bad day, your patience in letting things age a couple of years is admirable.
 
But I am curious about one particular aspect. You said:
 
The neck is modelled on my 4001. Alembic did a fantastic job of the modelling, the neck is lovely! The trouble is, I set-up the bass, the neck will move whilst I play it from the heat of my hand! It always goes convex and not concave too, so the strings catch against the frets and it becomes unplayable. It will do that sitting on its stand over a period of a few hours too.
 
Okay, so you go through this procedure once, play or let it sit in the stand for a few hours, and find the neck has lost relief. (By the way, I don't buy the heat of the hand business in general, plus that isn't a factor when it's sitting in the stand, right?)
 
So here's the question: what do you do the next time you set up? Are you continually easing the truss rods to get relief, time after time? That seems unlikely, because after just a few times the nuts would go loose.
 
Or do you ease them a bunch, and then tighten them back up just enough to where it feels right - and then immediately start playing? The potential problem here is that it takes a while for the neck to settle, even with only a 1/4 turn or less of adjustment, so you may actually overshoot and not know it for a few hours (maybe even a day).
 
It sounds to me like you are going through this process repeatedly, and I'm sure that would cause you grief. I'm just trying to get a handle on the mechanics here.
-Bob

[rogertvr]

Good points here, Bob.  I currently have an e-mail conversation on the go with Mica about it.
 
Firstly, I'd like to say that the house is centrally heated, so the temperature is more or less constant. I think that is why the warmth from my hand shows if I play it for three constant hours.  It doesn't manifest itself often, but nonetheless, sometimes it does.
 
Secondly, I tend to set it up, then let it stand a few hours. Perhaps I should set it up and play it! The weather here in the UK is notorious. It's very humid a lot of the time.  I think it is swings in humidity that are causing the problem but I haven't managed to prove that.  Read on though, I have a plan...
 
Thirdly, regarding the truss rods.  They need to be adjusted either way, depending on what has happened.  What amazes me is just how much adjustment is required from one day (sometimes just a few hours) to another. I'm not talking a quarter turn - sometimes it will require a whole turn or more on both rods to get it back to some sort of playable state. Hence the reason that sometimes, I can't even tune an open string as the neck has moved so much. I think you can understand my annoyance after two years of this, every time I want to play it!
 
I have a plan - please ANYONE step in if you think this is a bad idea!!
 
It's like the bass is constantly fighting itself.  I was thinking about this last night at length after I went to bed.  I'm considering removing the strings from it, releasing the truss rods off altogether, letting it sit around for a few days (weeks?), then doing a complete set-up as though it's just been built. Then I will monitor the humidity / temperature etc and note the set-up dates, what's required to set it up, how it behaves etc. Then a pattern might appear and I can move on from there with it.
 
Any comments?
 
BTW - it currently has Status Hotwires roundwound roundcore on it - 35-55-75-95 but prior to that it had Elites on it (same gauge). The strings have made no difference to the problem...
 
Rog

[David Houck]

Monitoring the humidity sounds like a great idea; and you can start doing that now.  If you find that you're having substantial and frequent changes in relative humidity, you might want to look into ways of controlling humidity before doing anything to the bass.

[bsee]

It does sound from your description like you may be over-correcting.  As part of your experiment, I would probably limit my adjustments to a half turn per day while you're trying to dial it in.
 
Also, those strings are pretty light.  I don't know how stability is impacted by the reduced tension, but there may be a connection there as well.  Is this the string set that Alembic had when they were building, or was it initially dialed in for something else?