Cutting through the mix?

[wick5]

When I complemented the folks at Alembic shortly after getting my bass made in heaven, I commented that it cut through the mix so nicely.  I was simply referring to the bass's highs, mids, and lows were equally as prominent in the mix (I was only using a DI that first gig with it). Haven't we all had gigs where it seemed the mids and or highs weren't cutting through like the bottom?

[wick5]

Oh, and how many times have we suffered through a 30 minute drum check, and then the sound guy tells you to play and 5 seconds later he signals OK, got it.
 
(Message edited by wick5 on January 28, 2016)

[edwin]

Cutting through the mix is also not just about what's going on with the bass. Not only does the tonality of the other instruments have a lot to do with it (are they prominent in the range where the bass has definition?), but also arrangement. If everyone is crazy busy, no one really gets heard.
 
I've kind of let go of worrying about what's going on in the house. Excellent engineers have told me that all they have to do is bring my fader up and they get the sound they need, so I know it's not a function of my signal that would mess things up. And, I've got lots of positive feedback from the audience, including other bass players and sound people. I think I'm just very lucky that I largely get to work with great engineers. It's a good thing to cultivate good relationships with them. If they like you, they will pay attention to what's going on with your sound and the good ones will even take the time to listen to the genre you are working in as homework (it's been pretty crazy to show up to do a tribute show where the house sound guy has done more homework than the band!). People say that the music business is all about relationships and this is doubly true when it comes to working with sound people.
 
But, quite often my part of the sound check is 5 (well, maybe 45) seconds of playing and the sound guy says OK, got it. and I know he does.
 
Oh yeah, sound people seem to really like it when I bring an RE 20 to put in front of my speaker.

[bigredbass]

Boy, the good endorphins must have been running last night.  Kudos from the Double J and Ed Zep, to quote, 'Ha!'  Thank You !
 
As you can see, once you're away from those tiny gigs where everyone's riding their own amp and just a PA for vocals, it's out of your hands.
 
My old music store manager had a standing question when someone would ask about buying a PA:  Are you just gonna sing thru it, or are you going to include bass and drums (and everything else)?  As it's the difference between a Beetle convertible and an 18-wheeler.
 
Jimmy's been VERY fortunate:  The Flim records and the live James Taylor set were done by George Massenburg, one of the very best engineers in the world, on a par with Rupert Neve.  And touring with JT, they have their own long-time engineers and top-shelf touring contractors.
 
But even at that, it's up to who's on the other end of that XLR from the direct box or mic. And then, the room:  Standing Wave and the Acoustics is not a new band, but a dark force like gravity, always trying to pull you down.  And it will.  
 
You know what you should sound like.  The best you can do is present the best tone you can build, shoot it down the line, and hope for the best.  You've been around plenty, you know what works, what it should sound like, but the unfortunate part of being a professional is many times, ya just got to grin and bear it.
 
The funny yet really aggravating thing is:  There's not a person reading this who has not gotten lots of compliments on a given night when you just wanted to hide, it sounded so bad !!
 
On the other hand . . . . get a Precision with Seymour Quarter Pounders, stainless round wounds, and a heavy pick (I prefer Fender 355 Heavy triangles), run it thru a cranked SVT, and just fram the hell out of it ! !
 
Joey

[elwoodblue]

Man, this thread cuts through the mix!
Glad to be in the same 'room' with y'all

[jazzyvee]

I had a big theatre gig last night with Musical Youth, my main band, and gave the signal to the PA from the DI, pre and also the cab was mic'd  up.  
 
Sound check sounded good but later on after the gig the clarity of the alembic bass and notably the B string got the thumbs up from a very discerning jazz drummer who was in the audience last night. She is acutely aware at how indistinct the notes on this string can be, when she is gigging or listening to bands, and was highly complimentary of the fact she could hear every single note clearly all the way down the neck. Even her mum commented and she is not a musician. Great news for me, the bass, the sound engineer, and just what I needed to hear. :-)
 
 The sound guy is mixing the concert for TV broadcast today so will be sending me a copy of the audio and video once it's done so I guess I can hear what went on out front.

[s_wood]

Excellent!  Compliments from a discerning drummer are high praise, indeed. Do you if the FOH mixer favored a particular EQ solution for your signal?

[s_wood]

Excellent!  Compliments from a discerning drummer are high praise, indeed. Do you if the FOH mixer favored a particular EQ solution for your signal?

[jazzyvee]

Hi Steve, I haven't had a chance to ask him yet but I will as I know him well, he is the sound engineer for the reggae band I play with  and also the venue we used is at the college where he is senior lecturer for the sound production courses and so he knows the room better than anyone.  Usually when we gig he asks me to give him the sound post but this time I asked him if I could give it to him pre just so I could find out if there is a difference.  
 
I'll have a chat with him once he has mixed the music and find out what his view is.
 
(Message edited by jazzyvee on February 14, 2016)

[dtothec]

Jazzy, in the future you might want to get a wireless system, go out in the venue during the sound check,  and work with the sound man to get the sound the way you want it.  That way, he can hear what you want it to sound like.  Then as the venue fills up and the acoustics change, he has an idea of what you want it to sound like and can adjust to maintain it the way you want, as opposed to him guessing or making it sound how he wants it.  Just a thought.

[jazzyvee]

Yeah that sounds like a good idea. I do have an old Samson True Diversity rack mount wireless that I got in about 1992 but I think its VHF system so not sure if they are still legal to use but It's worth a try. I read somewhere that Scott Henderson uses a loop pedal to set up a groove with the band then walk off stage to the mixing desk to get his sound sorted out.

[wfmandmusic]

Do it while the whole band is playing. Lots of low end on guitars can kill your cut. I am always amazed at how much high end seems to disappear from my bass tone coming out of the pa or onto a recording. Usually if I don't turn the treble up on my bass to a point where it's a little more than I like to hear on my stage rig it ends up sounding a little muddy. Yes you have to sort of find your sonic space with the rest of the instruments. I rarely boost mids. A clean high and a punchy  
thump on the low usually gets me there. I leave the mids to guitars and vocals.

[gtrguy]

I have a looper pedal I use with my bass looped on a song that I can fire up and walk out front and hear the mix. Works great! Also keeps me from playing the riff to Lowrider all night long.

[willie]

Here is how I cut through the mix. 12000 Watts!!!
Try to stop me from being heard!!!! Ha Ha Ha

[mavnet]

Long ago, I had a 50 foot long 5-pin xlr cable, just so i could walk out and check sound with the band. Definitely had to switch to the shorter one when actually playing, though - 50 feet of cable loves to wrap itself around your feet. I think it becomes sentient and angry when it gets longer than about 25 feet.