To Bi-amp or Not to Bi-amp, that is the question.

[sonicus]

Willie ,Thanks for your response . The 7mm Xmax is very impressive on those Beyma 15G40's !   Your rig indeed seems noteworthy ! ___ ! Nice gear .  
 
Wolf

[sonicus]

Willie ,Thanks for your response . The 7mm Xmax is very impressive on those Beyma 15G40's !   Your rig indeed seems noteworthy ! ___ ! Nice gear .  
 
Wolf

[edwin]

Jazzy, I've done that a few times. Having good in ear monitors helps (I use Futuresonics, which are based on actual speakers, rather than balanced armatures, so they have fantastic low end). Trying to get satisfying bass tone out of a wedge is pretty difficult. If the house is cranked up enough, you can get all the low end thump you need from there.

[jazzyvee]

Now I've done the stereo thing and would try it again depending on the gig.  
My regular setup when I'm using my series basses is to go mono out of the DS-5 and into one F1-x and to the QSC. Which sounds great and makes my gig easier to swap between series and non series on the same gig.  
 
However for some gigs I want to experiment with other options to hear if they are worth the effort and produce audible results.  
 
I'd like to have both pickups going to their separate F1-x's but at some point combine those signals so I have  the final output in mono into one cab
 
How I'm doing this currently is to feed each F1-x output into separate inputs on the QSC which is in Parallel Input mode. That just means that a signal at any of its inputs goes to both speaker outputs. ( Note: the manual  does not show an example of putting two signals into the amp in this mode).
 
However, even though it sounds fine to me,  i've been advised that this is not the best way to do it as it's basically just using it as a Y cable.
 
So with that in mind what is the best inexpensive way to do this, without getting an F2-B?. Is it a sensible thought to put an active AB-Y switcher pedal in line between the F1-x outputs and QSC so that I can get a proper combined signal mono into only one channel of the QSC.

[moongerm]

A good and cost effective passive A & B - A or B pedal is the Morley.  

[edwardofhuncote]

Maybe this is a good place to ask... suppose I wanted to use the high and low-pass outputs of my F-1X into a power amp, is it as simple as just using another of the same 1/4 TRS-to-XLR cables to the other channel input?  
 
Currently, I'm taking the F-1X's full-range output to Channel 1 input, and using the amplifier's on-board crossover to send 94 Hz and lower to a designated LF cabinet. The frequencies above are going to a pair of full range capable cabs with an equal (or close) impedance to the LF cab. (I'm putting a 4 ohm load on each channel, which as I understand it is capable of a 2 ohm minimum)
 
What if anything should I do different, or be cautious of? I'm pretty happy with the way the rig works now, just wanting to experiment... but without danger to either the amp or cabs.

[elwoodblue]

Yes, just use the two outputs(high/low) instead of the full range.
 I'd put the crossover point on the F-1X at 94hz or disable the amp crossover.
 Then using the poweramp attenuators, find the balance between the channels using your ears.
 happy hi-fi thumping!

[elwoodblue]

Clarification request:
 Are you presently bridging the amp channels or just using half of it (channel 1)?

[edwardofhuncote]

Ummm... not sure exactly how to answer.  
 
The power amp is a Crown XLS 2000 http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/products/xls-2000 There's a PDF of the manual here.  
 
I've followed the instructions to put the amp into INPUT Y XOVER mode, so *right this minute* there's one input from the F-1X going into Channel 1 input, but both outputs 1 & 2 are live. Channel 2 is receiving/sending only frequencies above the crossover setpoint out to the full-range speakers, while Channel 1 is only getting the frequencies below the setpoint. (I have it set at 94, but it's adjustable)  
 
In short, there is no physical Bridge, (as in banana clips or hard wires) between the two outputs. Although I have at times programmed the amp for BRIDGE MONO mode for using just the two full-range cabs daisy-chained on one channel. There are knucklehead-proof instructions for that too, which I seem determined to unseat with all this fooling around!  
 
I think this is going to be simply what you originally posted - just run another 1/4 TRS-to-XLR to Channel 2 input and set the front controls accordingly. If I'm reading the instructions in the manual correctly, I should put the amp into STEREO BYPASS mode to use both outputs of the F-1X this way.  
 
Thanks in advance Elwood!
 
(Message edited by edwardofhuncote on January 27, 2016)

[elwoodblue]

You will want to configure it so each channel is discrete(unbridged stereo).
 You might even find that there isn't much difference in sound splitting the signal in the amp,
like you have as opposed to splitting the signal at the F-1X. (Maybe less digital artifacts??)
If there's an attenuator for your horns on your full range cabs, sometimes it's nice to tame the super highs using that.
   
 You'll have to report back after playing a while.
 
I'll meditate on this and have a look at your manual. I don't own any newer Crowns,I know others here do.
p.s. I asked you a question in my wood thread about my stand-up bass  
 
(Message edited by elwoodblue on January 27, 2016)

[edwardofhuncote]

Spent a little time playing with this last night, and I have to say again how much I love this F-1X. It's just amazing how much versatility is in that one box, even (and especially) with other basses than Alembic-made ones, but my Persuader just requires less tweaking and twiddling on the front.   So, I put the Crown amp into "STEREO BYPASS" mode, (which is actually it's default setting) and used a second 1/4" TRS-to-XLR cable to connect both the Low-Pass and High Freq. outputs of the F-1X to Channels 1 & 2 inputs respectively. (as Elwood suggested)  

    Here's where I landed... it does require a little more thought as a Bi-Amp rig than just simply using the amp's internal crossover... I found that soloing each Channel so I could hear the fine adjustments to each side was easiest.   These settings produced a pretty happy sound... nothing too radical here:  

 

   Need to spend some more time exploring, but wow... it's just incredible what sounds you can hear when you have access to them.

[nemesis]

Hello this is Jon ?Nemesis? in Tucson. This is a great discussion and one I wanted to bring up to the experts. I have a 79 Series I short scale 4 string. I am the original owner. My baby has just recently been back to the factory for a complete refinish/refurb. I hadn?t played it 25+ years prior to the trip to the mothership. Anyway wanting to get back into playing again, in my retirement time. My setup in the 70?s was trying to emulate the John Entwhisle sound. I went for the stereo setup and used a Sunn Coliseum with 2 18?s on the neck pickup, and a Sunn Concert Bass with 8 12?s on the bridge pickup. I also used a Roland stereo flanger to send the sound around in circles. The setup could move mountains.....I liked the sound, but only could get about 1/2 of John?s notes at any given time. So now, I still have the Coliseum with the 2 monster 18 cabs. My question to the group is many fold. I would like to get setup again and have the possibility to do the stereo thing or perhaps not and stick with mono. I want to get something that is way more portable, and probably sounds better than what I have now. I have been looking at eh Genzler stuff, and wondering what you all thought of that. Perhaps coupled with the Coliseum head and speakers TBD. I really like the thought of the Genzler cab with the 1 15 and the horns, but really open to any thoughts. I have always admired Crown, but hadn?t given it much thought.  
 
Thanks in advance for any guidance,
?Nemesis? Jon

[bigredbass]

Jon, I'm a vet from those days (Acoustic, Peavey W-bins, you name it), and the difference in amps and cabs from then to now is like the difference in tech has made huge leaps.
 
My first question would be how attached are you to that Sunn Coliseum?  I see no parallel between 'vintage amps' for bass players like I do for guitar players, but thought I'd ask . . . . as far as 'how loud' and 'how bright', ala Entwistle, it's easily enough done, something that was much harder to say back in the day.
 
My first inclination would not be towards any mixing of the Sunn stuff and modern components, but that's me.
 
Joey

[rv_bass]

Hi Jon,
 
For a cab, I've switeched to Accugroove El Whappo, it's light weight, can handle power, and uncolored. Speakers consist of 15, 12, 6, and two soft tweeters. I'm from the Who, Dead, Traffic, Airplane, etc. era as well and I'm happy with it.  
 
Rob
 

[nemesis]

Rob and Joey,
Thank you for the thoughts. Being I guess one would call me an newbie, I have a lot to learn again. I'm not attached to the Sunn at all, just had it all this time. It was dormant like the Alembic. I'd like to find someone who wants a mountain moving beast of a Sunn, so I can get more portable. I took a look at the Accugroove, those look really nice. I like the multi size speakers in them. I'll keep looking for more info on those and anything else anyone suggests. Looks like the Accugroove is in the process of setting up some dealers, with the one I can find is in Georgia. One thing I forgot to mention was my bass is a graphite neck Series I short scale. It  came back from the factory yesterday, man did Mica and company do an AMAZING job!!!! Again Thank you for the thoughts, and really looking to hear what else anybody might suggest, full well knowing these things are a matter if taste, rather than moving mountains in days gone by.  
Jon