Set necks with ebony laminates

[zn_bassman]

I'm playing with the idea of a set-neck Alembic with ebony neck lams + Rogue/Europa or Sig elecs. I'd get it with one of the smaller body shapes (probably Essence).
 
A couple of these have been made (not necessarily with those elecs), and I'm looking for feedback from anyone who owns or has played one. In particular, how is the marriage of set-neck punch and the ebony's bassy depth and sustain, in the context of the limited neck-and-body physical contact? And how much does the top wood affect the tone in such an arrangement?

[jagerphan84]

Hi Zvi,
 
I've got a custom Excel which is not too far off from what you are describing.  The center neck lam is ebony, sandwiched by purpleheart, then vermilion, then mahogany.  It's also got Europa electronics.  
 
Compared to a somewhat 'standard' Epic I used to own, the custom definitely has better sustain, as well as a little more 'beef' to the sound compared to an all-maple neck.  There are other things contributing to the sonic qualities of my custom, like a sustain block under the bridge and a vermilion body/top combo, but I do believe that the ebony (and purpleheart) in the neck improve the depth and sustain.  
 
As for punch, there is plenty, especially with a little tweaking of the controls.  I find the bass and treble 'quick tone change' switches to be very useful for finding easily replicated tones.  
 
The body and top wood play a greater role in the tone of a set-neck instrument than they do in a neck-through, and I don't doubt that the vermilion on my bass lends some warmth that I may not have found with ash, maple or mahogany for the body.  
 
Just my $.02!  Hope all goes well with your custom endeavor.  The fine folks at Alembic will take great care of you through the process.
 
Adam

[zn_bassman]

Thanks Adam! That's a fantastic bass you had made - really nice (and unique) specs.
 
I've got a 4-string Rogue (no lams) and a 4-string Epic, so I'm aware of the basic differences between the neck construction and elecs + influence of body woods. I'm playing with the idea of either having Alembic replace the neck and elecs in my Epic (waiting for Val's assessment) or having one built. Also toying with sustain block ideas.
 
Do you have a sound file featuring your bass's tonal range? I use fretted only, so there are some different parameters, but I'd love to have a listen to your instrument. Even if it's a short vid/sound clip made with a digital camera. I'd be happy to reciprocate...

[jagerphan84]

Well, I don't currently have any recorded samples of that bass, but I have been waiting for the right excuse to reassemble my home studio, which is currently boxed up from a recent move.  I'll see if I can get everything hooked back up tonight and lay down a few tracks.  I've got Friday off from work, so even if I can't get to it tonight, it shouldn't be a terribly long wait.  Thanks for the inspiration!
 
Adam

[zn_bassman]

Looking (listening) forward to it! I've been exchanging sound/vid clips with another Club member - as long as the quality is decent (not necessarily pro), it's a great thing to do.
 
What kind of music do you play? I'm mostly into classic rock and its derivatives, and I (try to)draw most of my influence from John Entwistle.

[jagerphan84]

It's tough to nail it down to a particular genre.  A few years ago I played in a 3-piece (guitar/vox, bass/keys/vox, drums) performing a few originals and a hell of a lot of covers (mostly R.E.M., Radiohead, Weezer type stuff).  Since then, I've played with a couple different, more experimental, jam bands.  One with a rotating lineup playing quasi-electronica with a hint of groove (think Disco Biscuits).  The other group was another 3-piece (guitar, bass, drums) playing entirely improvised material.  I like to throw these guys for a loop by picking an odd time (5/8, 13/8, 7/4, something fun like that) and switching in the middle of a groove, sometimes overlapping with the drummer's straight time until he catches on.  There's video somewhere of one of our gigs, I'll try and get a hold of a copy.
 
As far as influences, I'd cite Brian Eno as my biggest musical inspiration.  For bass technique, Jack Casady, Phil Lesh, and Mike Gordon are at the top of my list.
 
I wasn't able to get everything organized last night, but I will work on it tonight and tomorrow and will certainly keep you posted.
 
Adam

[zn_bassman]

Sounds very cool, am looking forward to it. If possible, I'd love to hear the tonal range you can get - for example, playing passages panned far to each pickup with the filter at or near its extremes.
 
How do think your wood combo and sustain block compare to a neck-thru with ebony lams? Does it approach that tone, or is it significantly different? I mean in general, without getting too deep into your unusual wood cocktail, which probably mixes some other veggies into the soup. How much of the trademark Alembic piano sound and crunchy attack is there (I assume a lot of that comes from the maple, which you've avoided)?
 
Besides the classic rock, I also like prog and fusion - up to a certain point. I like older Kansas, old and recent Rush, some Dream Theater and others who like to stretch the limits in various directions. Also projects like Niacin. I also like to pay at least a bit of attention to other genres that I don't necessarily enjoy, just to expand my understanding and nick a line here and there.
 
I've got some Stanley in my playing, and I even have a little Jaco here and there. My overall concept is along the lines of Entwistle in his Alembic and Buzzard years, although I also like his stuff from his Thunderbird years. Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Billy Sheehan, et al also figure in someplace. Lately, I've been focusing more on tone and presence as opposed to aggressiveness.

[jagerphan84]

Hi Zvi,
 
I think the wood combo and sustain block bring the instrument tonally closer to a neck through, but I'm sure having (multiple) ebony lams through the body would add more to the fundamental and sustain than one central ebony lam on a set neck.  I do still hear some of that piano-like tone, though not so much as on my Series I.
 
I like your openness toward other genres - I've tried to keep an open mind as well.  Only a few years ago I started to enjoy folk music, eventually becoming a big fan of John Fahey, Leo Kottke, Ry Cooder, Taj Mahal, The Byrds, and all kinds of musicians that I would have previously dismissed without a second thought.  Ry and Leo (as well as Nick Drake) are now the primary influences on my acoustic guitar playing.
 
I recorded a handful of tracks today demonstrating various filter positions and pickup panning on my custom.  I've yet to find a free web hosting service capable of handling the files, but if you email me at the address in my profile, I'll send the tracks to you.  One track in particular has a very Stanley-ish sound to it (to my ears, at least).
 
Adam

[zn_bassman]

Hey Adam,
 
Thanks for your insight. I'll put it all into consideration for a possible future Alembic project. I've abandoned the re-fit idea, as Valentino says it would cost almost as much - if not more - to replace/upgrade a neck and elecs as it would to buy a new bass with the same specs.
 
Speaking of other genres, I just listened to a live CD with Trey Gunn and his band for the first time in a while - 2 Warr guitars, electric guitar, percussion, no vocals - might have had a synth too. Fantastic stuff, definitely in the alternative/prog category without going too far out. I also hear some Mediterranean and mideastern music on occasion - not my personal taste, but there's plenty to learn from in it.
 
You can send files for free via www.dropload.com -you upload in the background and their server informs the recipient by email that he/she has a week to download. Download is also in the background. I think they take files up to 80 MB, although it's best to send in smaller doses.  
 
I'm looking forward to hearing your stuff, and I'll reciprocate later this week. That'll be a home vid file or 2 of just me doodling around on my Rogue with different settings.