Author Topic: Relative value of different models?  (Read 1542 times)

the_8_string_king

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2006, 10:59:50 PM »
Curt, since you're interested in opinions, I give you a few more.
 
Adding purpleheart and/or ebony is not merely cosmetic.  Purpleheart is denser than the rock maple, and adds sustain and depth.  Alan's experience is typical -that it's (maple/purpleheart neck) less bright than a pure maple neck.  Ebony is even denser, and has the special characteristic of increasing overall sustain AND also the sustain of the lower partial(s).
 
My 6-string Elan Plus has the standard 11 laminates (6 maple, 5 purpleheart).  My 8-string Europa has 6 ebony lams, 3 purpleheart, 2 rock maple and 2 flame maple.  And I owned an all maple precision, and have played all maple neck Spoilers.
 
Purpleheart and ebony aren't JUST cosmetic... they're VERY functional; they increase strength, and -IMO- the quality of sound -which IMO is more complex as a result of the blend of different woods
 
Curt, I think one of the best things about Alembics -besides the beauty and quality of design and craftsmanship- is the combination of the legendary cleaness of signal combined with one of the more versatile electronic packages.
 
Not all Alembics are alike; not all electronics packages are equal.
 
For ME, the standard Elan electronics -and the Electronics of lesser models- like the Spoiler, Persuader, and Essence... are simply NOT satisfactory... they're not versatile enough... for me at least.
 
I regard the Distillate electronics as the minimun satsifactory Alembic package.  The more modern Europa/Rogue electronics are essentially the same except for the Distillate pickup selector is replaced by a more versatile balance/pan switch.
 
Still, Distillates are quite versatile, and offer impressive tonal flexibility that can be achieved quickly by flicking little switches.  Two pickups with a master volume, master filter with on/off Q switch and bass & treble boost/cut switches with a pickup selector -it's VERSATILE, and sometimes they go cheaply, perhaps because the electronics are slightly outdated.  But ask anyone who owns one, and they'll tell you they're 100 percent Alembic, they kick butt, and they're VERY versatile.
 
Sometimes you can luck out and score a good price on an upgraded lower-end Alembic model; common examples are Elan Plus and Essence models that have Europa electronics.  They tend to less often have purpleheart neck lams, though.
 
That's another nice thing about a Distillate; they tend to have purpleheart laminates, along with the benefits of beauty, strength, and sustain.
 
Check out the entries for Distillates in the showcase section, especially Ken's 5-string Coco Bolo Distillate.
 
Anyway, this model is in my opinion -for me at least- the minimum electronics package for the versatility I want from an Alembic.
 
Slightly better is the Europa/Rogue packet, rivaled by the Signature electronics -which offer INDIVIDUAL filters AND Q switches for each pickup (and are therefore more versatile in that respect) but lack the bass & treble boost/cut switchs (and are therefore less versatile in that respect.
 
The next slight upgrade is to the Anniversery electronics, which are similar to the Signature electronics but slightly more versatile.
 
Then it's onto the Series instruments, which are considered the top of the line.
 
The Series are Stereo instruments that have a standard jack but also a custom 5-pin jack that connects to an external power supply -to power the active electronics.
 
The Series I instruments offer individual volumes, filters and 3 postition Q switches for each pickup (and a pickup selector).  This allows for detailed individually-processed tone-shaping for each pickup, when combined with the incredible performance of the Series pickups and electronics -can only be surpassed by the superior performance of the Series II, which adds a master volume and upgrades the 3 position Q switches to CVQ (continuously variable Q) switches -with superior range and tweakability.
 
Of course, some people get custom electronics with combinations of these things.
 
Anyway, I think I've covered the basics with regard to the various electronics  of various models.
 
Oh, yeah, I don't consider the standard Epic controls adequate either.
 
Anyway, good luck on your quest for an Alembic.  Take your time, do your homework, research, and be patient.  When the time is right, go for it!

steve4765630

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2006, 11:23:50 PM »
I got my 6 string Epic used for $2000. It is in near mint shape and has an insanely expensive top wood upgrade. Though 6 strings tend to be more expensive than 4, I think the price can greatly differ based on condition and options.

steve4765630

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2006, 11:23:55 PM »
I got my 6 string Epic used for $2000. It is in near mint shape and has an insanely expensive top wood upgrade. Though 6 strings tend to be more expensive than 4, I think the price can greatly differ based on condition and options.

csissom

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2006, 12:11:28 AM »
Wow!  Thanks to everyone for all the great info!  I'll try to keep the discussion going and respond to everyone, but if I miss someone, forgive me.
 
Curt

csissom

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2006, 12:22:02 AM »
Alan,
 
Thanks for that insight, it is indeed helpful.
 
I figured the neck laminates had an affect on tone, but it is good to get some insight into how it affects it.
 
I find the whole concept of different woods contributing to the tone in different ways fascinating, but also rather mysterious.  I clearly understand that each piece of wood in the guitar contributes to its tone in some way, but how any particular type of wood contributes, is a complete mystery to me.
 
But yes, I have been reading up here on the forum and website quite a bit about the electonics options over the last day or so, and I am starting to get a basic understanding of all the options, so yes, I can see there is a lot of difference in the models on the electronics side.
 
So much to learn.  I love it.
 
Curt

csissom

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2006, 12:40:34 AM »
Joey,
 
Yes, I can see now, how the Series basses have the best of it all.  Unfortunately, even a Series I is beyond my budget right now, as is any kind of a custom order (at least for now).  I do however like your recipe.  That's the sort of thing I think I am looking for.
 
And yes, I know every Alembic is different.  The one Alembic I already have, has lots of customizations and upgrades.  I don't think there is any other one like it.  If you are interested, this is it:
 
http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/22262.html?1132893134
http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/888.html?1106292108
http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/22139.html?1132194491
 
I love it, and wouldn't let it go for anything, but, playing it for the last 5 or 6 months has convinced me that I NEED a four string Alembic too!  And with tax refund season being here, I find myself back in the market.
 
Curt

csissom

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2006, 12:47:15 AM »
Longhorncat,
 
Thanks for that tip about the Distillates.  That is very useful, since as it happens, I have been looking closely at that Distillate which is currently listed.
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7409227590&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
 
What do you all think about this bass?  A good value?  Do you see any problems with it based on the info there?  (I am asking the seller for more details, better photos, etc.)
 
Thanks,
Curt

csissom

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2006, 12:57:40 AM »
Olieoliver,
 
Yea, that's the place in Coppel off of Beltline Road.  The place with all the sand volleyball courts out back.  A nice little rockin club to play.  
 
Oh, and thanks for reminding me that our site needed updating!  I added our upcoming show (rare these days) and more pics from 2005.  I hope you checked out some of the tunes too!
 
If any one is interested (shameless plug here):
 
http://dsn.nwemusic.com/home.htm
 
Lots of pictures of me and my black Rickenbacker in action, but unfortunately none of my Alembic yet, but soon there will be I hope.  There are, however, lots of free MP3s, if you dig that sort of thing.
 
Curt

csissom

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2006, 01:01:38 AM »
8 String King,
 
Thank you so much for taking the time to share all that information!  That is great, and very useful.
 
And I'll tell you what, you about have me convinced to put a bid on for that Distillate on eBay.  That sounds like just what I want.
 
Thanks again,
Curt

ajdover

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2006, 03:15:15 AM »
Curt,
 
    Joey's (bigredbass) post about the different electronics is right on.  I own a basic package (Essence), Signature package (Dragon's Wing), Europa package (Europa) and Anniversary (Spyder), so I can vouch for what he's saying.  They are all a bit different, each with their own voice.  Couple that with wood choices and you have a very wide variety of tonal options indeed.
 
     On the Europa, I wish, upon reflection, that the tone switches were rotary pots with a center detent rather than switches.  I suppose Alembic could do this for you if you wanted; I bought mine stock.  I just feel that the pots vs. the switches give you more versatility in the amount of cut or boost you can dial in.  Of course, the filter makes up a bit for that, but I'd still like the pot over the switch if I could do it over again.
 
    I find the Signature and Anniversary electronics fairly similar, but the Anniversary electronics, coupled with the woods in my Spyder (maple/purpleheart/walnut/flame maple) make the tone of that instrument piercingly clear.  The Anniversary electronics are a bit darker if you will, but no less versatile.
 
    The Essence is simplicity in and of itself.  In a lot of ways, I find it preferable sometimes to the more elaborate electronics packages.  If I could add or change a thing or two, it would be to delete the pan and add another volume (one for the bridge pickup, one for the neck pickup a la a Jazz Bass), and add a Q switch.  I'd also add another preamp so I could adjust the level of output of each pickup.  This would push it close to Signature electronics from what I understand, but would also make it more versatile in my view.  Even as is, they're amazing instruments.
 
Anyway, glad we could all be of help, and I hope you find the Alembic of your dreams.
 
Best regards,
 
Alan

the_8_string_king

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2006, 09:52:15 AM »
Curt, make sure it's a Distillate and not a Spoiler; I tried to look at the pictures and couldn't get an up-close, but I don't see the boost-cut switches, so again, you may wish to confirm that it is a Distillate.  (The Distillate and Spoiler are virtually identical -except that the Distillate has the two other toggle switches... the bass & treble boost/cut switches).
 
Assuming it is... GOOD LUCK!!!
 
And I'm glad to help, hope it makes a difference!!!

csissom

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2006, 12:26:16 PM »
8 String King,
 
Thanks for that tip.  The serial number the guy gave me is for an 82 Distillate.  I have submitted a query to Alembic for it, but still waiting on response:
 
http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/27395.html?1145725863
 
But I'll look out for what you say anyway, knowing with Alembic it could be almost anything.
 
I have also asked the guy for close up pictures, and he said he would get some later this week, so we'll see.  I'm not going to bid until I see a closer view of the bass.
 
Thanks again to everyone for all the great input!
 
Curt

csissom

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2006, 06:10:51 PM »
OK, the guy posted more pictures on the ebay listing for that 82 Distillate, including some close ups of the controls.  It does have the three switches.  From what I understand of what everyone has said here, it looks like the standard Distillate electronics.
 
In fact, after getting a closer look at the bass, I really like it, except...
 
It has intials, presumably of the original owner, inlaid in the fretboard at the 14th fret.  And I'm thinking I would feel a little odd playing a bass with someone else's intials stamped on it.  Is that crazy?  I don't know, but on the more practical side, does this sort of very personal customization add to, or detract from, the value of a bass on the used market?  
 
Any opinions or comments would be appreciated.
 
Curt

jalevinemd

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2006, 06:33:47 PM »
Those initials are a real eyesore. I find it impossible to believe they were done by Alembic. I think decorative inlays are one thing, but I too would feel strange about owning a guitar with someone else's initials. I don't think I'd ever feel it were mine as a constant reminder of its previous owner would be there...always.

bob

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Relative value of different models?
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2006, 07:39:33 PM »
I don't know, the wood is really pretty in the newer photos. If you think a Distillate would suit you, this looks to be a pretty nice one.
 
Sure, the initials would detract from the value, and it's a little interesting that there weren't any bids even before we knew about them.
 
If it were me, and this bass was just what I wanted, and I wasn't willing to wait indefinitely for another one to show up, I might go for it, as long as the price was reasonable. If I fell in love with it, I could always have someone remove the initials and stick some ebony in there... wouldn't be perfect, but a lot less noticeable, and I'd know it no longer belonged to this HG guy.
 
Or you could stick a U in the middle, and feel all nice and cozy about it :-)
-Bob