Author Topic: Batteries  (Read 596 times)

dfung60

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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2006, 01:17:42 AM »
I'm suprised one of the other Series owners didn't respond sooner, but here's the scoop on the Series 1/4 jack.
 
I don't think there's any question that it's the most complicated output jack on any bass anywhere.  Basses that have active electronics and mono out often use the ring contact as a battery switch.  When you plug a mono 1/4 plug in there you short together the ring and sleeve (ground) contacts.  So, on one of these basses, you wire the battery + to the ring and when the contacts short together you have a power circuit and the battery is turned on.
 
On the original Series basses tip, ring, and sleeve are used as they normally are for something like stereo headphones.  The bass pickup appears on tip, bridge pickup on ring, and ground on sleeve.  To switch on power, there's an independent switch on one of the main contacts - when the plug is inserted, the contact is bent slightly and it throws another switch to turn on the power.  I believe there's also another switch which is switching between the battery power and the external power as well.  I haven't done this in a long time, but I believe if you have both the 5-pin and the 1/4 connections made it will be running off the batteries instead of the external power (e.g., any time something is plugged in on the 1/4, power is coming from the batteries).  The wiring on the 1/4 jack looks like a forest.
 
This is why older Alembics only play the neck pickup when you are plugged in with a regular guitar cord.  Perhaps Ron was trying to do a favor for future Series buyers - when you try it out in the store, you can tell the salesman Hey, you want $2000 for a bass with only one working pickup? and end up getting it cheap. :-)
 
This was OK up through the 80's.  I suspect around that time, wireless units were becoming very popular and they're enough of a pain that you don't want to have to modify the transmitter plug.  I built a little adapter, duplicating the innards of the power supply box and it worked fine, if only for short periods of time.  I don't know that a lot of people really needed true independent pickup outputs anyway (two SVTs are at least twice as stupid as one), so by the end of the eighties, I think Alembic started wiring the 1/4 jack to have both outputs on the tip and all was happy with guitar cords and transmitters.  You still get independent outputs on the 5-pin connector anyway.  I'm kind of surprised that they didn't add a few more internal switches in the jack so that it would put mono out on a mono cord and switch to independent outputs with a stereo cable.
 
Back when all this stuff was originally designed, the only rechargeable batteries were NiCads.  These are the ones that suffer from memory so you really need to charge them fully, then discharge them fully and repeat or you rapidly lose battery life.  Nowadays there are NiMH and lithium secondary batteries that don't have memory problems but require a power monitoring chip in the battery pack to charge properly.  I guess it could be done, but would be expensive.
 
Battery life is *very* short on the Series, as the onboard electronics were designed for sound rather than to save power.  Your typical EMG-equipped instrument can easily get more than 1000 hours from a single alkaline 9V.  With my Series, I think you're doing really well if you get 40 hrs of playing time on two batteries.
 
The voltage coming out of the DS5 box is higher than 18V (I can't remember the value off the top of my head, but 30V sounds familiar).  When you're on external power, I think you'll probably get better headroom and dynamic range, but may not notice the difference.  Strangely enough, I find that the output level is usually higher with the batteries than the external power.

fmm

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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2006, 05:30:02 AM »
Maybe we need a quote of the week.  I nominate Mr. Fung for the following:
...two SVTs are at least twice as stupid as one...
fmm

playbootsy

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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2006, 07:31:33 AM »
Hello, I?m a new owner of Alembic?s and i don?t have much knowledge on its electronics.
Ok, we dont loose quality and power of the sound with batteries, i?m understood this.
 
Someone said that in S1 77? the stereo sound only leaves the bridge pick up and that is truth,  when plugged in the 5 pin.
 
What i have to do to get a stereo sound by the booth pick-up?s when i play with 5Pin plugged?
 
Thank?s!
And sorry if i don?t understand some tip write up.
 
Now my question is: Could I in my S1 77? get a stereo sound

David Houck

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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2006, 07:56:14 AM »
Ricardo;
 
Stereo, in this instance, means separate signals for the neck pickup and the bridge pickup.
 
If you plug a stereo cable into the 1/4 jack, you will get a stereo signal out.
 
If the other end of your stereo cable has two 1/4 mono connectors, and if you plug one of those into one channel of your amp and the other one into the second channel of your amp, then the one channel will have the neck pickup signal and the other channel will have the bridge pickup signal.
 
If you use the 5-pin connector and cable, the cable will send the stereo signal to the DS-5.  The DS-5 has two separate outputs; one is labled bass and the other is labled treble.  You can send the neck pickup signal from the bass output to one channel of your amp and the bridge pickup signal from the treble output to the other channel of your amp.
 
Thus, you can get a stereo signal from either the 1/4 jack or the 5-pin connector.
 
There is no need to use both the 1/4 and the 5-pin connectors at the same time to get a stereo signal out to your amp.  You only need to use one.
 
So, run the 5-pin cable from your bass to the DS-5.  Then connect a 1/4 cable from the bass output of the DS-5 to one channel of your amp, and run a 1/4 cable from the treble output of the DS-5 to the other channel of your amp.
 
Stereo!!

playbootsy

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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2006, 11:14:08 AM »
Thank?s again Dave!!
It?s so easy!!
Now i can get stereo sound from my S1.

David Houck

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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2006, 06:14:03 PM »
Aprec?e!

bigredbass

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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2006, 06:23:05 PM »
Batteries . . . has any one matched this experience:  
 
Thought I'd be real hardcore and get the LITHIUM 9v's (longer life) instead of the regular copper tops, what have you.  For the $10(!) apiece I spent, it was cheaper to buy regular alklaline 9v's as the Lithiums didn't last any longer.
 
DF, what was the genesis of the separate routing of each pickup?  Of course it's the ultimate setup, amping each pickup and its different tone apiece, but I wonder how many people ever really did this on a permanent basis?  It was obviously a very deliberate consideration as the F2B was built to support it.
 
I always have this theory that somewhere in the desert there's a pile of those 'RickOSound' splitters that used to come with 4000-series basses. . . .
 
J o e y

David Houck

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« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2006, 06:32:07 PM »
Joey; I've recently started sending my neck pickup to channel one of my F-2B and the bridge pickup to channel two for the purpose of being able to get more individual EQ adjustment for the pickups.  I'm still experimenting and haven't reached any conclusions yet.

dfung60

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« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2006, 06:44:49 PM »
playbootsy - There's actually a bunch of different ways that you can wire up and hear both pickups.
 
1) Use the 5-pin cable and get neck, bridge or both (mono) out from the DS-5 external power supply box.
 
2) Use a stereo Y-cable in the 1/4 jack which will give you neck pickup on one plug and bridge pickup on the other.
 
3) Build an adapter to get mono out.  I did this so I could use my bass with wireless.  It's a 10 cable with a stereo plug on one end and a mono jack on the other.  Inside the adapter, you need two small resistors so you can sum the individual outputs.  I don't remember the values, but this is what's happening inside the DS-5 mono output.  I just leave this little adapter in my case.
 
4) Do the mono conversion inside your bass.  It's just 2 resistors (less than $1.00 of parts) on the output jack.
 
I actually find that summing to mono is more useful for me.  I've never run dual amps (remember, two SVTs are...).  If you separately amplify the two pickups, then when you flip the pickup selector or adjust the pickup volumes you will shift the amp balance as well.  With mono output, things generally work the way you expect, based on every other bass in the world, and if you want stereo output, you can still get it a the 5-pin jack.
 
David Fung

dfung60

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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2006, 06:54:45 PM »
Joey -  
 
I'd be curious too about why Alembic brought everything out individually.  I suspect that the first time around, they probably just had the 5-pin output for external power, then added the 1/4 jack later for people who forgot their DS-5.  Ron had a recording studio before he started Alembic and I suspect he was probably following the smart engineer's rule which was that it's easier to put two signals together when you want to than to take them apart when you mixed them before!  
 
There are some effects that sound better when you don't process all the signal, so I guess you could use this to sort of mix live.  I don't really use effects much so I can't really speak to that.
 
I guess this stuff was all just getting us mentally prepared for some future Series III bass where Ron unveils the ultimate piezo pickup hiding inside the sustain block.  I think he must be teasing us (very slowly over the course of 30 years).  As many of you may know, Ron is one of the co-inventors of the PZM microphone sold for many years by Crown.  It's a piezo technology utilized unlike any other microphone in the world so it has less coloration and less limitation from high volume levels too.  Without 30+ years of mental prepartion an onboard bass version would probably fry our collective cortex.  I think I'm almost ready though!
 
David Fung

lothartu

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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2006, 09:56:07 PM »
When I had my Series bass I always ran it mono live (no dual SVTs for me); but when I was in the recording studio I ALWAYS ran stereo into two direct boxes and then into two mixing channels.  This allowed me to really tweak the bass exactly how I wanted it in the mix since I had each pickup recorded to a different track.  Top that off with then being able to have your bass pickups individually panned in the final mix and you've just reached audio engineering nirvana.
 
-Jim

edwin

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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2006, 06:31:19 PM »
I never knew the Crown PZMs were piezos. All the ones I have seen are small condenser elements bounced off a boundary plate (hence, the name Pressure Zone Microphone). I am a little surprised as piezo elements usually make terrible mics.
 
I have experimented with running my bass in stereo. I used to do it all the time, with each pickup getting its own F2B channel, but then my rig changed. Ultimately, I really like stereo. Of course, you could also do it like Bootsy, with 5 pickups, each with it's own output, chain of effects and amplification!
 
Edwin

dfung60

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« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2006, 01:50:38 AM »
Whoops!  You're right Edwin, PZM mics are condensers.  I hadn't thought about this for many years, but I did remember that Crown referred to the microphones as elements and the mistake stemmed from there.  Piezos need to be physically distorted to generate a signal which is relatively easy to do with physical compression and hard for a microphone that's picking signals up in the air, even with a diaphram attached.
 
Sorry about that!
 
David Fung

oujeebass

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« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2006, 07:52:25 AM »
at what voltage will the effects of weak battery be noticeable?

jet_powers

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« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2006, 10:41:29 AM »
The battery in my Exploiter gave up the ghost during sound check Saturday night. Good timing for once! I swapped it out before starting the show and found I had marked the date on the old battery- June 15, 2005. I use this bass probably 8-10 times a month and got almost a year out of the battery...
 
JP