Instrument Loyalty?

[jazzyvee]

I've been on this forum for a few years and what has come to my notice over those years is that. It seems that Alembic guitarists seem to hold on to their instruments more than bassists.
 
 I presume there are many more alembic basses out there than guitars, but taking that in to account, the trading of guitars here over the past 3 years or so pales into significance compared to basses.
 
The same seems to be the case with alembic instruments appearing for sale on E-bay.
 
Is it that guitarists are more satisfied with their instruments than bass players? There are many stories of people selling their basses here and then searching for them years later to it back...
 
Why do yo sell up?

[grateful]

As long as I am physically able to play, my Further will never be for sale!  I honestly cannot imagine a better guitar.  (I never imagined a guitar could be SO good before having one!)
 
Mark

[ajdover]

I think the reason we low enders tend to trade or sell more often is we tend to start out at the lower end of the Alembic spectrum per se, e.g., we start out with an Epic, or an Excel etc.  We get bitten by the Alembic bug, and begin to search for an even better example.  For example, my Alembic story is this:
 
First Alembic: '84 Spoiler-Exploiter ... sold for
'03 Alembic Spyder
then I added, in order ... '03 Alembic Europa ... then ...
'04 Dragon's Wing ... then ...
a '91 and '92 Essence (OK, kind of going backward ... but ....
In the queue: a Custom Series II John Entwistle Replica Exploiter (Spyder)
 
So as you can see, I kind of upgraded each time (with the exception of the Essences, which, BTW, I love).  I think most guys here do the same, or they buy an upgraded version of the model they prefer, e.g., Europa with Series II electronics.
 
Anyway, that's my take.
 
Alan

[s_wood]

I don't know if I would agree with the notion that we bass players are less loyal to our Alembics.  Speaking for myself, I am pretty fanatical about my Alembic basses.  When I hear a bass line in my head, what I hear is the sound of an Alembic Series bass playing the line!

[s_wood]

I don't know if I would agree with the notion that we bass players are less loyal to our Alembics.  Speaking for myself, I am pretty fanatical about my Alembic basses.  When I hear a bass line in my head, what I hear is the sound of an Alembic Series bass playing the line!

[spliffy]

no less loyal or disloyal compared to my other basses.
I think as bassplayers we are more particular about our sound so as we develop our skills, sound and our ears we adjust accordingly, where guitar players tend to go go deaf after cranking their rig up to 11, and then they cannot hear the difference... KIDDING!!!!
I suspect for bassplayers we change bassess as that is key to our sound where guitarist tend to change their stomp boxes, amps etc whick is key to them. OK basically I have no real clue, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night  : )

[spliffy]

no less loyal or disloyal compared to my other basses.
I think as bassplayers we are more particular about our sound so as we develop our skills, sound and our ears we adjust accordingly, where guitar players tend to go go deaf after cranking their rig up to 11, and then they cannot hear the difference... KIDDING!!!!
I suspect for bassplayers we change bassess as that is key to our sound where guitarist tend to change their stomp boxes, amps etc whick is key to them. OK basically I have no real clue, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night  : )

[hydrargyrum]

Well,
 
I had two Alembic guitars that are both gone now, but have retained my SF-2.  So I suppose I am an example contrary to the norm.  
 
I always assumed that there was a greater trade in the basses because that is what Alembic is primarily known for.  I suppose it also doesn't hurt to have had Stanley Clarke and Mark King as well as many other notable personalities endorse them, versus the comparatively smaller number of well known guitarists who use them.
 
(Message edited by hydrargyrum on June 16, 2006)

[mikedm]

I've only owned two Alembic basses and never at the same time; the first was used to trade up to the second. I would trade again for the right reasons, for another Alembic. I think that's a fairly common theme demonstrated within the club and in many respects can be construed as owner (sic. product) loyalty.
When you compare the number of options and variety available to bassits to guitarist, it's understandable that there would be more bartering activity for the low end brethren.
 
I'll resist the temptation to double post

[bsee]

I think it may be the opposite in terms of true loyalty.  Since I got my hands on an Alembic a few years back, I haven't played another brand.  Well, maybe to try someone else's bass for a few minutes or to noodle in a music store, but not for real.  I am not sure this is the norm, but it seems there are at least a few others like me.  I think our guitarists are more likely to have a Parker, PRS, or Strat along with their Alembics.  Is this so?
 
-bob

[bigredbass]

I'd think that it's just the difference in the markets.  Bassists are a LOT more open to new things (witness the huge difference in the number of 'boutique' bass builders vs. the number of boutique guitar builders), and it's not uncommon for some guys to go through a lot of different designer basses.  An ALEMBIC guitar is a LOT different than most other guitar choices.
 
But then on the other hand, there's guys like me for whom there is nowhere else to go:  Depite the fact that there's some nice axes out there, I'd buy them while keeping my ALEMBIC.  Why?  Because not long after I got it, I'd notice the same pickups, hardware, and tone that every other builder uses that are the usual 'off the rack' hardware:  The motorcycle equivalent is all these 'custom' builders that get everything out of an S+S Big Book, screw it together, and announce they're in the Custom Motorcycle Business.  That's why it's real hard for me to get real excited about the other top basses:  They all use EMGs/Barts, ABM/Gotoh bridges, etc., and they all mostly sound alike.
 
Plus, after the friends I've made at ALEMBIC, aside from the occasional pawnshop find, I wouldn't dream of spending serious money with anybody else.  They've almost adopted me and I bought a USED Spoiler that didn't put a dime in their pocket!  
 
So, hell yes I'm instrument loyal, because they're just so customer loyal.  Stand behind their work?  I've never seen anything like it.
 
I think we forget just how arrogant ALEMBIC could be IF that was their mindset.  There's a lot of high end products in this world where their reps just drip icewater in your face if you're not famous or wealthy (maybe we could hold a contest . . .).  Or just for the everyday world:  Try calling Fender and tell them you have a problem with a 70s bass, you're the fifth owner, and see how far YOU get!
 
I know I carry on about this, but I truly feel this way.
 
J o e y

[lbpesq]

Actually, there are quite a few guitar boutique builders, but, unfortunately in my opinion, most of them think a boutique guitar is either a tele or strat copy built by a small company, or a Les Paul copy with some kind of engraved metal on top.
 
I suspect that guitarists are more likely to use multiple instruments (and therefore more likely to own multiple instruments) than bassists.  For one, there is less need for a bassist to have a backup instrument at a gig - how often do you break bass strings? (yes, I know it happpens, but not nearly as often as a guitarist breaks a high E or a B string).  Also, it is far more common to see a guitar player use several instruments during a set, whether for different tones, to get tax write-offs on all of them, or just to be cool.  I don't recall seeing too many bass players changing instruments with each song.  Besides, when we die, whoever has the most guitars wins, right?  LOL
 
As for the personal touch we get from Alembic?  This company is my musical soul mate.  'nuff said.
 
Bill, tgo

[keavin]

Instrument Loyalty to me is like being married to your Main axe & never been seen holding another in your arms.......almost like the Wife.....but I do consider my Other bass to be my girlfriend though, inwhich i will ocasionally go over & give her some every now & then. it's like cheating on my Alembic.

[keith_h]

I think it all boils down to the personality of the owner. There are those folks that acquire things and tend to keep them throughout life. Then there are those that acquire things and then let them go. From my personal experience I would tend to say most of the guitarist I've known are of the second type. I can also say the same for most of the bass players I've met.  
 
I think both types continue to search for themselves within the context of their music (of which the instrument is an extension). Some maintain their roots and grow from them by keeping their past close by. Others grow by moving on and re-establishing their roots in new area. Neither is better that the other. They are just different  paths to the end of the journey.  
 
Back to the original question. I don't think you can judge loyalty by the number of basses or guitars sold or resold. You need to base it on the what replaced the sold instrument. This is the only way to cover both types of musicians. For me , I'm of the first type, that means I have not bought anything other than an Alembic for my past three basses. I still have all of my previous basses and still play them (albeit not very often). For those of the second type many here appear to replace their Alembic with another Alembic.  
 
I will echo what's been said before. I think my preference for the instruments has as much to do , if not more, with the folks building them as with the instrument itself.  
 
Keith

[u14steelgtr]

As far as I know Alembics expertise is limited to solid body guitar? style instruments.  Specifically they build guitars, baritone guitars and bass guitars.  To be fair the ?Classico? upright bass is on the product list but I have never (to the best of my knowledge) even heard one of these instruments on a recording much less live.  Alembics are HiFi solid body instruments and as such Alembic instruments are in many ways a niche within a niche.  
 
What genres of music have widely adopted HiFi solid body (non-Bass) guitars? My over-simplified answer to this question is ?few to none? but this is changing.
 
I am primarily a guitarist and have been since the mid 1970?s. Beginning about 3 years ago I began migrating toward being a serious pedal-steel guitarist also: but this is recent history.  Bear in mind that the following statements are based upon the prejudices and perspective that come with being primarily a guitarist for a long time.  
 
It has been my observation that people that are primarily bass-guitarists tend to own fewer instruments than people that are primarily guitarists.  Among people that play both of these instruments the tendency is to own more guitars.  Bass players tend to have 4 to 8 basses including both acoustics and electrics. Guitar players tend to own 8 to 16 guitars including both acoustics and electrics. I believe that this is primarily because guitarists choose a wider variety of instruments because different genre?s of music call for a wider variety of instruments which have intrinsically distinct acoustical and tonal properties.  The majority of the genres of electric-amplified guitar are rooted in mid-fidelity or low-fidelity amp/speaker sound and tone.  
 
I own many guitars but only 2 bass guitars: an acoustic and an electric solid body. The bass guitars are:  
1. Tacoma CB10C 4 string for playing acoustic.
2. A Schecter 5 string Model-T (a P/J style) solid body.  
I have not yet explored fretless bass or slap-style bass so these 2 instruments allow me to play Bass in all of the styles of music that I want with the people that I choose to play Bass with.  
Guitarists on the other hand? we choose to play very different guitars for different styles. The assortment of guitars which we may choose to play in our chosen styles of music may include:  
* Tuned plate archtop  
* Non-tuned plate carved archtop e.g. pre WW2 Gibsons
* Single coil solid body  
* Parlor sized flat-top
* Classical
* Jumbo flat-top e.g. J200
* Pressed-plate or laminated-plate archtop e.g. ES-5 or ES-345
* Resophonic,  
* Banjo-guitar
* Piezo or other transducer-type pickup acoustic
* Humbucking style solid bodies
* Alembic HiFi
* Flamenco
 
Until at least the late 1960?s Lo-Fi and Mid-Fi was the only thing we could buy off the rack.  
 
By the end of the 1970?s higher fidelity instrument electronics and pickups were available. The FRAP acoustic guitar pickup and Alembic instruments (both California based by the way) come to mind as poster-children for this change.  On the instrument-amp front Peavey comes to my mind as the poster-child for higher-fidelity combo-amplifiers.  
 
During the 1980?s the HiFi Bass got a lot of visibility and was adopted by a substantial number of musicians.  This coincides with the wide availability Bass-guitar specific rack based HiFi component systems. Much of the guitar world is to this day still infatuated with poorly shielded pickups and LoFi instrument amps which yield harmonic distortion percentages which go in to the double digits.  
 
The HiFi solid body electric guitar is a newcomer which has been slow to gain a following.  HiFi solid body basses gained a substantial following 20 years ago. The guitarists that purchase Alembic guitars are and have always been purchasing an instrument which is in a class by its self and were as the French say ?avant garde.? So when we get an Alembic guitar we are getting an instrument which is even within musical subcultures considered far more obscure and esoteric than an Alembic bass guitar.
 
Goodness I did not intend to go on about this for so long.  But at least it is good fodder for further discussion.
 
Regards
-- Eugene