Author Topic: Saddle positions & intonation (Read 119 times)

bracheen · « **on:** August 21, 2006, 06:03:56 AM »

Good morning
Last night I was setting the intonation on my 1994 4 string Epic. The saddle on the E string is almost all the way to the back of the bridge now. What happens if there is no more space to adjust the saddle? Is a new bridge necessary? Would different strings adjust differently? I was getting a little worried when I had to keep tightening the saddle but the string stayed sharp.

Sam

bob · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:23:32 AM »

Too soon to panic, Sam. First, different strings will adjust differently, and sometimes a replacement (same exact string) will also intonate differently. If it used to work fine, then maybe the string is just going bad on you.

If you like the strings, and it seems close, then you might be able to squeeze a little more distance out of it by reversing the saddle on the E. Just be sure to look at it carefully, to see that the string still sits nicely in the groove, and isn't getting hung up coming off either the front or back of the saddle. You should have a definite witness point (where the strings stops moving), though it doesn't necessarily have to be at the front of the saddle.

Where are the rest of the saddles? (a photo would help) If they are all fairly close to the end, then maybe your bridge position is off a little; but if they are spread widely, I would say it's more likely a string issue.

If you do need to shift it, you might not need to replace the entire bridge. It may be possible to just get two new side rails, with the height adjusting screws positioned off center.
-Bob

bracheen · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2006, 10:38:27 AM »

Bob, thanks for the response. I was using your post on setting intonation as a reference.
The rest of the saddles are almost in line at the other side of the bridge.

I do like the strings, Dean Markley nickel plated Blue Steels. Out of several brands tried, these are the ones I keep coming back to. I'll change them out soon and hopefully that will be the root cause. And just in case it matters, I'm using a Korg DTR-1000 tuner.
Thanks again
Sam

(Message edited by bracheen on August 21, 2006)

David Houck · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2006, 05:32:56 PM »

Sam; the saddle positions tend to suggest that perhaps it is a string issue as Bob suggested. How long has this set been on? Let us know when you change strings and reset the intonation. It will be interesting to see the change if any.

Bob; I'm sitting here staring at my bridge. Maybe it's one of those mind tricks that you can't see even if it's right in front of you, but I don't see how you can reverse one saddle. It has two holes; one smooth and one threaded. If you reverse it, the smooth hole will be lined up with the screw and the threaded hole will be lined up with the bar. Maybe I'm just not thinking this through.

bigredbass · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2006, 07:21:48 PM »

I run into this a lot on five-strings, the B-saddle just right back to the stop. Fortunately, just a tiny bit of travel will 'bring it in', usually. Also, at times I've had new strings that just did NOT want to adapt to that 'kink', breaking over the top of the saddle headed for the nut. Try it again in the morning, and it's 'formed' to that shape and settles down nicely.

J o e y

bob · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2006, 08:50:26 PM »

Dave, you can stop staring now :-)

You're right of course, you can't simply reverse the existing one (and in full disclosure, I didn't think about that), but you could get or make a new one pretty simply.

David Houck · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:21:47 PM »

Thanks Bob; I can go to bed now!

mica · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:51:11 PM »

Sam, you've had that Epic for a while. If you haven't had trouble intonating before, I'd certainly try a new set of strings before getting into the hardware.

However, if you need more travel, a custom bridge can be fashioned for you.

jacko · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2006, 01:52:17 AM »

Sam. I'd go for new strings too. Slightly relevant tale... Carol Kaye recommends pulling all the saddles as far back as possible to get better string tension. She claims this doesn't make any difference to intonation!!!! An interesting woman but sometimes I wonder what she's on.

Graeme

bracheen · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2006, 05:21:32 AM »

Thanks for the imput. It has only just now been a concern but my thinking was it has been a progressive thing, creeping a little further each time the intonation has been adjusted. With that thought in mind, would it eventually max out so no more adjustments could be made?
I feel much better now. You know how it is when one of your babies isn't feeling well.

Sam

georgie_boy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2006, 06:07:00 AM »

Well Sam, hope things are working out-if not drop me a line and we'll see what we can do.
As I said, NEVER try to adjust intonation with an old set of strings on board.
My Series is still spot on with old strings, but my Curbow is slightly out-----nothing to hear, but the Korg tuner shows it slightly. Must confess, that when the strings on the Series are worn, I put them on the Curbow untill they die. To most of the audiences that we play to, they wouldn't notice the difference.
I took the Curbow to lanzarote with me-------didn't want to risk the Series in the hold of a plane. She arrived perfectly in tune, and sounded just great!!
I would recommend to anyone who has not tried these basses to give them some serious time!!
The Bartolini system is just superb
Just my $0.02 worth
Anyway,----let's get your intonation problem sorted out first.
Any queries, contact me or the guys here on the site. Amongst us, I'm sure we can sort it out.

Take care

G

bigredbass · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2006, 09:10:32 AM »

I think what Ms Kaye probably means is something I've found:

A lot of times I've checked my tuning between sets and found I'm off somewhat. Since I'm not playing chords and my range is beneath everyone that is, I was surprised that me or nobody else noticed. Plus, if you're in the 'no money above the fifth fret' club, no one execpt those cursed with perfect pitch will hear it.

Besides, you can always blame it on the idiot guitar player who's tuning between every song!

J o e y