Author Topic: Stupid Question Time Again  (Read 447 times)

dfung60

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2006, 08:19:41 AM »
There's many thousands of dollars between the retail price of a Series I and Series II, but most of that is in woodwork, LEDs, etc.  The electronics differences that you would pick up in a retrofit are pretty minor if you are electronically inclined at all.
 
The Q-switches select between three resistor values to pick the EQ curves.  On the CVQ, the switch and resistors are simply replaced by a pot that sweeps through those preset resistor values.  The retrofit would require the right pot value (sorry, I was near a Series I but not a Series II, can look it up if you like later) and two solder connections each.  You would probably want to order CVQ pots from Alembic, as there's not enough space were the switch is to take a full sized pot.  You may have to enlarge the hole in the faceplate too.
 
Master volume is relatively easy too.  You need to find the output wires from the pickup volume knobs before they run off to the output jacks then splice in a dual ganged volume pot to act as the master volume.  On a Series bass, the two pickup outputs are kept completely independent through the output jacks, so you use a dual pot for master volume instead of a regular one.  Again, you can get the part from Alembic.  The output jack area is VERY complex on a Series bass, and you can make a tech turn completely white faced when you pull the back plate off.  But if you do this by thinking about intercepting the individual outputs before you get to that part of the wiring harness, all is easy.  You'll need the dual volume pot, a knob, and you'll have to drill a hole in the faceplate.  You could get even trickier and put the pickup volumes on a stack pot then put the master in the hole you just vacated too.
 
Even if you bought the parts from Alembic, I doubt that there would be more than $50 here.  It's all labor, but there's not even much of that if you look carefully at how this works.
 
I think the master volume is a worthwhile mod for any Series bass, if you are willing to have another knob.  CVQ really is a personal taste thing.
 
David Fung

wayne

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2006, 08:32:44 AM »
I lurk for months, and now here I am posting twice to the same thread....Gasp! Argh!
 
I wouldn't say that SII is top-of-the-line over SI.  One's not better than the other...just different.
 
Kevin- from your comments and trying to read between the lines (always hazardous!) I would recommend that you first discuss with Mica the MV addition.  This might even be something that could be done locally with parts from Santa Rosa.  I don't think the MV requires any changes to the harness or board.  Then, if you find that you're still jonesin' for the CVQ, take the dive and send it home for the total upgrade.
 
Also, seriously consider taking Pete up on his offer.  I played a SII thinking that's what I wanted and decided that it was too much control for me - hence The Dark and the Light, my first Series bass, did not have CVQs.  (The Unicorn was built as a bit of a show piece, so it had to be SII.)
 
More words......fewer answers.  :-)
 
C-ya.........wayne
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tom_z

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2006, 08:58:04 AM »
Seems like it would have been brought up here at some time (in fact, I vaguely recall the topic), but is it possible for Alembic to create CVQ pots with detents at the three SI resistor values? It would make it easier to quickly select a repeatable setting, and still allow for maximum flexibility.

keith_h

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2006, 08:58:52 AM »
Kevin,
Sounds to me like the Series I meets your needs other than the lacking master volume.  
 
I agree that getting repeatable setting is easier with the vol/filter/Q switch setup over the EMW. The Essence electronics are easier yet. On my BB I find I change settings reasonably often. With my EMW fretless I very rarely adjust anything more than the filter/Q switch and pan control. I've more or less found the basic tone I want and only need to tweak it here or there. I think this has more with how I use the basses than what controls they have.  
 
I am still planning a Series instrument and am itending to go with Series I electronics with master volume. This mostly has to do with my itent to perform and needing fairly quick and repeatable settings.  
 
Keith

jazzyvee

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2006, 12:03:19 PM »
As a non Series bass player,  I've gained a lot of info about series I & II from reading this thread. Although I have only ever had a quick blast on an SII bass the amount of tone flexibility is awesome and I too wonder how practical it would be to get repeatable sounds in a live situation.
 
I've managed to get pretty fast in getting consistent repeatable sounds from my Signature and Europa basses but that has taken time. I would imagine would take a while to become proficient with the tone controls on the series basses. If you had a SF-2 as well, you are in trouble. :-)
 
In reality, If a series I or II bass came along in the right shape and price range I'd go for whichever came first. For a brand new one I'd think hard considering the points made earlier and also the price differential.
 
I will continue to read.  
Jazzyvee
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http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

David Houck

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2006, 12:20:45 PM »
Tom; I believe it is the case that Alembic doesn't actually make the pots, I believe they order pots that meet their high quality standards and provide the necessary function.  Thus, I think it is probably the case that they would not be able to make CVQs with detents at specific points corresponding to various resistence values.  But I'm just guessing.

foth

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2006, 02:29:32 PM »
Kevin,
I have a Series I that has had the upgrade and a Series II that's being built.  I play the SI like George, setting the tone with the 2 vols and 2 tones, and adjusting the overall volume from the amp.  I have always wanted a master volume, but there's not enough room on the small body with the older large knobs.  I ordered my SII to get a master volume and the tones that you get with cvq's that are between off and first position on the SI q's.  The silent upgrade is worth it if you are sending in your bass for other things.  My SI was at Alembic for a long time for the upgrade because I hit the r&d period for the 4 string pickups.  So remember to figure the time away from home into your decision.
Paul

dfung60

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2006, 05:26:48 PM »
There's an excellent solution to the Q-switch vs. CVQ problem (oh, if only all my problems were like this) which is a good exercise for the reader.
 
The Q-switch is selecting between 3 different fixed resistor values.  The CVQ knob is an infinitely variable pot, wired into the same circuit.  
 
So the solution is pretty straightforward.  Instead of putting fixed resistors on the Q-switch, you can replace some or all of them with trimpots that vary over the CVQ pot range.  Now, you'll have 3 presets, each of which can be tuned to the frequencies you like. Out of the factory, you'd preset the pots to the current resistor values.  I guess you could even allow access through the back plate for the adventurous.
 
For me, I find that I rather like the least peaky and most peaky settings on a Series I (my favorite tone there would be neck EQ on least peaky and bridge EQ on most peaky with the neck pickup full on and bridge pickup blended in to taste).  So an even better setup for me would be to keep the two preset resistors and add a single trimpot on the third position, which could be tweaked as I wish.  The trimpot could be a regular pot that's externally exposed as well, but that knobs function would be very hard to explain to most people, especially since it doesn't do anything in many setups!
 
This still doesn't solve the problem of repeatability on the EQ knob itself.  Of course, this could be solved as well with a slightly more complicated switch and some more trimpots.  I guess that remembering EQ setups whether in analog or digitally would be an excellent item for the Series III wish list!

kmh364

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2006, 05:24:37 AM »
Sounds like I need to discuss this further with Mica. She originally offered just to trade harnessess and drill out the bass and install the added components. As a bonus, they'll attend to the finish crack that my guitar guy hasn't had time for.  
 
FWIW, Even though I'm competent with a soldering iron, and I'm a degreed Electrical Engineer, I'd rather not personally modify the thing in any way. I'd prefer paying the extra money and having Alembic do the proper install in order to preserve value, reliability and warrantee.  
 
Yes, the repeatability issue is troubling to me, but we are talking Alembic here, so repeatability of settings is a relative word, LOL! This here ain't no Fender, Son! LOL!

adriaan

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2006, 01:49:07 PM »
Mica gave me a price quote for adding a rotary Q switch with 1 dB intervals to my Spoiler, and it could not have been more than the cost for the parts and a couple of hours benchtime - presumably to figure out the resistor values. Having fixed steps would take care of the repeatability issues with a CVQ.
 
Then again, some seem to think you cannot really hear a 1 dB increase on the Q - some think even 2 dB is too small a difference. Just that the waiting list was long, and I had been delaying stuff myself already ...  so I went with a standard 3 position Q switch.
 
+3 dB adds a nice ring.
+6 dB is noticeably different from +3 dB.
 
+8 dB was too much for my taste, and the reason I had the switch modified.
 
I like David's idea of adjustable presets - sounds like a very practical solution, without losing the fiddling options.

FC Bass

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2006, 03:31:30 PM »
What about shipment costs from Holland?
Maybe in the future I want to send my basses in for a refinish and maybe some upgrades.
Cheers!
F.C.
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lothartu

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2006, 06:41:28 AM »
I dig David's ideas too.
 
I'm thinking my dream electronics set up would be a something like a Series I package where each 3 position Q-switch has positions 1 and 2 wired to internal trim pots and position 3 wired to a external pot. You get 3 selectable CVQ pots per pickup, it's just that 2 of the pots are internally adjustable presets and the 3rd is an external knob.  Call it something like Series III or Series II.5 electronics and toss in a master volume pot if it floats your boat.
 
Damn, now all I've got to do is find a bag of money and put in an order.
 
-Jim

FC Bass

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2006, 06:59:16 AM »
Maybe Mesa's TriAxis style is a good idea...Alembic in the 21st century! 250 presets on the series 2000   -LOL-
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'99 Orion 5 fretless
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2400wattman

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2006, 12:23:26 AM »
ummmmm... where's the beer?

terryc

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Stupid Question Time Again
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2006, 04:57:36 AM »
Guess I will upset a few people here....
How many knobs/switches do you really need??
Is the audience going to notice how many Db you dial up especially after a few beers and they are all dancing on the floor.
You have a killer tone but if you go through the house PA then you are at the mercy of the sound engineer??
Even recording engineers will not recognise your ultimate tone set up because he is too busy getting hassle from the singer/guitarist/drummer. et al.
Jaco had a Jazz bass with a single passive tone control and he changed the world!
I own a Mark King Standard, vol, pan, two tone filters with single Q switches..more than enough tone as far as I am concerned.
 
terry c