Author Topic: Idea for filter & Q switch mods for Epics & Orions (Read 475 times)

2400wattman · « **on:** October 22, 2006, 07:12:00 PM »

O.k., I put some thought into this for us non-filter Alembic owners. Instead of a seperate switch and filter knob to replace the bass and treble knobs, how about having them both on a concentric pot with the top half being the q switch(with three detented points for the flat and boost points) and the lower half for the filter. This would also make it to where two filters could be installed on Epics & Orions or maybe leave either treble or bass controls with the filter. Come on guys, let's see if we can get them to bust this out!!

keurosix · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2006, 07:58:51 PM »

I've thought of the concentric knob idea for the filter too, only you beat me to the post! I think it's a fantastic idea and would be cleaner looking even for Series electronics too. Where a nice wood top would not want to be riddled with knobs? I think a CVQ top without detents might be an easier pot to manufacture though.

lidon2001 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2006, 08:03:08 PM »

Mica mentions in this post that Alembic does not use concentric pots.

http://club.alembic.com/Images/402/26670.html

T

2400wattman · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2006, 10:03:27 AM »

Mica, would you care to comment on the possibility of this?

0vid · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:26:30 AM »

I would like to ask of those who swapped the B/T eq for the filter. My Epic is a bit honky with the bridge pickup soloed, i.e. has a strong low mid nasal bark, the sort of tonal diff. you'd get from humbucking coils in series, as opposed to S/Coil or humbucking in parallel.. Works for many situations for me, but also doesn't work for me in other situations. Would the filter help in removing the low mid bark to approximate a cleaner more single coil type tone...

adriaan · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:56:50 AM »

Try adjusting the p/u height to find a better sound ...

... but BEFORE you do, check the FAQ section. The p/u mounting on Alembics is different from just about all other builders, so you might damage the p/u if you don't know what you're doing.

On an MXY p/u (normally found on Epics) there are four screws, with two sticking up from out of the holes, and two which are holding up the p/u from beneath the opposite holes. The p/u is held firmly by those four screws: there is no foam padding, there are no springs.

Loosen the two screws that you can see, then adjust the two screws beneath, which you can reach with a small screwdriver through the hole. Never over-tighten the screws - just make them snug so there are no rattles.

...

One limitation of the Epic electronics package is that you probably have to adjust the height for the other p/u as well, because you have only a single level pot inside the control cavity. Starting from the Europa/Rogue package, there is a level pot for each p/u so you can adjust the p/u height and compensate without having to touch the other p/u.

keurosix · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2006, 06:48:42 PM »

Ray,
I would have to say yes, because the filter causes a more active global change in the sound than the bass and treble controls do. By adjusting the filter you set the threshold of the low-pass and can selectively remove upper frequencies. By sweeping the filter knob, you should be able to minimize the mid frequencies and enhance either a broader range (top-end - killer slap tone) or narrower range (bottom-end - Reggae Dub sound). Depending on the position of the Q switch, this can be a subtle or profound effect. Of course the primary reason to replace the B & T controls with the AE-2 filter & Q is to do the opposite: To get the trademark Alembic sound which can exaggerate a peaky resonance, usually in the mid-range. The best news is that if you don't like the filter mod after you change it, you can always go back to the B & T controls. There are a lot of Alembic Clubbers who would be happy to buy the filter kit from you, or keep the kit with the bass for a higher resale value? Epics with the set-neck really have a pronounced mid-range. It's a really warm sounding guitar. Hard to make it not warm. I love my fretless Epic. It really works there. Perhaps you could try a cleaner pre-amp or solid state bass amp to get the sound shaping you want.
Kris

oujeebass · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2006, 08:46:17 PM »

As an Epic owner, those two knobs are more powerful than you would think. Vary your picking/plucking position slightly and things happen. With tiny adjustments in Blend/Bass/Treble can span an impressive spectrum. Plus recall is not as much a problem.

0vid · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2006, 04:51:41 AM »

Kris

Thanks for that, I'll give it a go. Sounds like what I need...

adriaan · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2006, 05:38:54 AM »

If money is no object, sure - spend money. But I'd give adjusting pickup height a try first.

As you're used to the BT controls, you'll find the low-pass filter is a different animal altogether - will take some getting used to.

bigredbass · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2006, 11:45:06 AM »

I don't like concentric pots, as you lose two controls if only one goes bad. Plus, Series axes are not very thick, so you might have depth problems. Plus, I'm occasionally clumsy enough I don't need the pots sticking out any higher !

My 2 cents: I prefer the filters to B+T. I'm very traditional/old school Alembic. I would not prefer to trade the ultimate clean sound for a bass or treble boost/cut that's available in spades on most amps these days.

J o e y

David Houck · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2006, 01:27:13 PM »

Adam; I think the thread that Tom referenced pretty much addresses the question. Alembic's standard pots are high quality sealed self-cleaning mil-spec pots. My guess is that part of the relatively high cost of Alembic electronics are the pots they use. Mica states that the only concentric pots they ever used were hand-made by Ron. So my guess is that off the shelf concentric pots probably do not meet Alembic specs. Anyone who's ever had a special order electronics job from Alembic can imagine how much the cost and time involved for those pots were. It is my impression that Ron's bench time is a bit of a precious commodity and that wait times can be a bit long for a one-off project. So my guess is that it might be tough to talk them into such a project given the projects that are already in line for Ron's bench, and that the cost and wait time would not be small. But I'm just guessing.

pace · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2006, 04:24:03 PM »

FWIW, I swapped out the B/T +/- and 3-way selector electronics on my Orion Baritone for a Pan, Filter +Q~ I've never looked back.... That one simple upgrade opened up the instrument's spectrum tenfold.

IMO, the LP filter is an essential part of the Alembic equation. Bass & Treble cuts & boosts are great in addition to (EMW, Europa/Rouge), but never a substitute for 'em.

So yeah, the concentric pots might not be feasible, but if you're like me and almost always have your Q switch on, perhaps Ron can fabricate a Filter w/ your favored +db notch hardwired?!!?

2400wattman · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2006, 06:12:34 PM »

Thanks Dave

lg71 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2006, 08:25:16 PM »

2400wattman, go for it you won't look back...

Meanwhile, I'll be happy to have your old B/T +/- if you won't use it, I won't mind extra holes on my bass, a filter is fantastic, but for a control freak like me it's not enough... more is definitely NOT less!