Author Topic: Question for the onboard effects loop users (Further and Tribute) (Read 171 times)

paulman · « **on:** October 04, 2006, 08:02:07 AM »

My effects rig just died (had it since 99) and I am looking to upgrade finally.

What all are you running in your effects loop for your effectors? I'm being conscious of the constant static pickup output with the active electronics, and was hoping there were some suggestions from experience.

I was running a (no flame

) Digitech 2120 Valve Guitar System which has been a centerpiece for my rig since it was purchased. I am a fan of rack units with external controls due to the short signal path, but with the Further Impedance buffers I'm not sure I need to worry about that.

Another thought was a hybrid Analog stompbox/Digital processing kind of setup. Does anyone here use patch bay switchers?

Anyhoo, anyone who can relate their experience would be appreciated. Thanks a bunch!

paulman · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:38:40 AM »

Has anyone used Carl Martin effects?

tom_z · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:38:20 AM »

Roger - I hate to just leave this thread hanging because I'm interested in responses you get. I don't have a lot to contribute here since my setup is very simple and direct. When I use my Mesa Lonestar I'll sometimes put a Mu-Tron III in my signal chain, when I use my Fender Bandmaster I have the Mu-Tron and a Lexicon LXP-1 with the Audio Upgrades mod.

I've been looking into the TC Electronic G. System, but it's a fairly pricy multi unit. Anyone around here used one of these?

Peace
Tom

daveo · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2006, 09:44:44 PM »

I have used Carl Martin Quattro and found the compression to be good, the distortion a bit flat and lacking drive, the trem was ok, and the echo was ok, but not great.

I have a TC Electronics G rackmount system that I liked for a while. It can give very clean lush sounds and works well in an amp's effects loop, but I never tried it in my Tribute's loop. I ultimately found the system too hard work with changing parameters on the spot in clubs. It would sound killer in the practice space, but every room is different and I never had the time to alter the parameters to fit the club.

I am really enjoying playing through a Working Dog (Allesandro) 1x12 Doberman- a 40 Watt hand wired point to point amp that attenuates as low as 10 watts. I also put a Budda Phatman Tube Overdrive pedal and a Budda Wah along with a Peterson Strobo Stomp in front of the amp. They both sound great and the Peterson is a very accurate tuner.

Good luck to you...

DaveO

lg71 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2006, 01:54:09 AM »

I use a Bass Pod XT and it's all I have, very versatile and useable. The compressor (LA2A emulation) + parametric EQ are not bad for digital processor type. I don't have much experience with Analog Bass effects so I cannot advice much about that. I heard the Korg AX3000B, not bad, but the BIG problem is that it comes out in stereo only, and if you use the mono out (1 channel) you loose the other half of the signal and the difference is obvious and weak. I had a Joemeek Channel Strip (analog) once, and it worked nice with the Bass, for my taste.

paulman · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:31:16 AM »

Thanks for the responses guys!!

I am pulling the trigger on the G-system today. We'll see how it goes. The 4 effects loops and other neato features sold me. I'll let ya know how it goes.

I don't mind the rocket science factor, it's become a fact of life for me.

DaveO...what parameters do you change for a specific room? I have never done this, and it may be something I need to start considering.

I am playing the Further through a BOSE PS-1 which is extremely dynamic in almost every room I've used it in. Always sounds great. If there's more to think about in spite of that, more information please!

lbpesq · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2006, 10:02:18 AM »

Roger:

Are you going for the $400 G-major version or the full out $1500 floor unit? Also, do you have anything between the Further and the Bose or are you running straight into the Bose system?

Bill, tgo

paulman · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2006, 11:53:10 AM »

I figured I'm playing this amazing guitar, and putting it into an amazing Projector, I should probobly attempt an amazing effects processor so I did the $1500 Floor unit.

HOWEVER, the G-System is not just a floor unit. The entire processor can be removed from the footswitch controller and rackmounted, therefore giving better placement/securing of effects loop devices and connections. AND the only thing you run to the Foot Controller is a CAT 5 network cable. There are other things I'll review later after I've toyed with it some (it's now in the back of the car).

Here's the Output path (Further loop excluded)

Further > F1-X (With Korg DTR in the SEND but not return) > Channel 2 of Bose PS-1 (this path seemed the cleanest, and best choice)

I was just going Further > PS-1 for a little while, and wanted to do a bit of warm up. The F1-X is just perfect for that.

tom_z · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2006, 06:21:15 PM »

Congrats Roger - I'm looking forward to your review.

daveo · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2006, 11:52:36 AM »

I'm eager to hear how the G Floor Unit works for you. I know TC Elect. makes very high quality digital effects and effects units. I think it might be a great match with your systm- the F1-X and the Bose.

I find that although I may have a killer setting on my amp and effects (only using Budda Wah and Phatman now) at home when I'm practicing; when I get to the gig it all sounds different to me becasue it's a different room or because the band is all scrunched up on a tiny stage together or whatever. I like to be able to easily reach out and tweak volumes, drive, eq and reverb without having to change through a bunch of banks (digital effects) or worse- going into parameters of individual effects to try and get my sound right.

I admit I don't have a F1-X (sweet!) or a Bose PS-1, I'm mostly playing through a Working Dog (Allesandro) Doberman, a Working Dog Rottweiler, or my Boogie Nomad. So some of my parameter tweaking may be a result of the amps I use as compared to the PS-1.

How is the Bose working for you? Do you use it to play with a band? Does it project well enough for a club situation or is it more of a solo setup? I like Bose, but haven't heard much from guitarists using it as an electric projector. I have heard they are very good for acoustic guitars, vocals, open mic type situations.

Long winded- sorry. Enjoy all of your great gear and congrats on the G-System.

David Houck · « **Reply #10 on:** October 28, 2006, 10:44:57 AM »

Hi Roger; congrats on the G-system. I too am interested in your review.

paulman · « **Reply #11 on:** November 07, 2006, 01:49:43 PM »

Thanks...I don't deserve this stuff because I'm mediocre at best on guitar, but I am a gearhead to the extreme.

Anyway. After a month of studio tweaking, and a great Halloween gig, I rate this as an almost perfect sonic match for the Further.

The setup of the G-System layout is a no-brainer. After the Digitech 2120 this was a breeze. This takes the 2120 concept, and takes it to another, easier level. However there are no weird preamp tube or solid state sims. This is purely an effects box, and sonically transparent as well.

Pros
1. The tap tempo will take up to 10 taps, and then set to the average rate you've been tapping. This can be set to globally control the tempo, so if you change patches your tap tempo stays the same. The tap tempo can be used to set flanger, chorus, auto wah, phaser and delay times. It will also divide this by 1 (no change) 1/2 or 1/4 of the set tap tempo. And lastly, the floor controller has two handy lights that flash back and forth to see where you are. I use this a lot!

2. There are 4 effect loops for you to insert distortions or any other fave stompbox. These have input, output, and headroom DB settings. These placed sequentially before the G-system effect chain, and after the Filter and Compressor

3. The brain can be removed and rackmounted, and connected to the controller via a regular Cat5 network cable. Using this feature, I mounted my 2 pedals (Boss DS-1 and an Electro Harmonix 16 Second Delay) on a sliding rack shelf for easy access. The G-System alos has 4 stompbox power outlets (the Boss runs off this).

4. The floor controller is built like a tank, I could use it to deflect bullets.

5. TC Electronics releases updates on their site, the last one added some new effects.

6. It's nice and tweakable parameters-wise. As I said earlier, after programming and living with the 2120 for 7 years this was a breeze.

7. One of the BEST features! You can lock out the factory presets. So when I'm live, I will never ever ever get a patch/preset that I didn' make. This was terrible for me with the 2120. If you went blanko and held the footswitch too long, it would flip to some horrible factory preset. As you may guess, this had happened to me at the worst possible moments.

Cons
1. The routing is pre-programmed, EX: you are not able to route the reverb before the pitch shifter etc. (this doesn't matter much to me, I like it simple these days)

2. The floor controller expression pedals only work with a stereo cable going to the in and out jacks. The brain unit also has expression outputs (for a total of 4) but those will work with a regular instrument cable.

3. Some settings are NOT intuitive, and are buried deep inside the prgramming matrix. These are the complicated setting that most people wouldn't mess with, but a tweaker I am!!

So most of the Cons don't matter to me, but it's as close to perfect as I can find without a custom built deal. Having the single teeny cord running from the rack to the floor controller is neat too as I used to have up to 5 controller cables running out.

So I give it a thumbs up. The Further and the G-System are a super match, and throw in the Bose Ps-1 and wowsa! It is a bit pricey though, so that's a con.

I have noticed that the F1-x actually seems to decrease the reflexive sound of the Further, and am not using it in the chain.

Furtherloop -> G-System -> Furtherloop -> F1-X -> PS-1.

That seems weird to me, does anyone have any thoughts on that? I'd appreciate the input immensely.

David Houck · « **Reply #12 on:** November 10, 2006, 05:17:26 PM »

Great review; thanks!

paulman · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2006, 12:28:22 PM »

You're welcome Dave. I was trying to avoid selling the unit and just wanted to do an objective review.

One more thing. The unit has permanant spillover. No matter where you are patch-wise, if you use the Delay or Reverb effects and change patches, the Delay and Reverb spill into the next patch without any dropout or sudden cutoff. This is a Global setting and always on.

The Digitech unit also had this but called it seamless. It had to be configured for each patch, and was only available in single processor patches. Limiting and annoying for me.