What constitutes an an alembic model?

[jazzyvee]

Is it the body shape that determines the model or the electronics?
 
I find it a bit confusing for example I could, subject to available funds,  order a signature bass with series I or II electronics and probably all the options that a series bass would have but would it then be called a signature or a series bass?
 
Maybe someone very knowledgeable can untangle the web for me and clarify. When for example is a signature a series?  
Jazzyvee

[olieoliver]

Very good question. I've wondered about this myself. I have a signature (MK) with Europa electronics but they still call it a Mark King?

[jseitang]

its a werid thing. people usually like to catorgize... really, alembics are all one of a kind. no two are ever alike. but for all intent purposes, the models serve as platforms in which direction you want to head towards. but an alembic, is always an alembic!

[mikedm]

So hypothetically, if I order a Series II and opt for a Europa body, it's a Europa bass? As explained to me by one of the authorized dealers, the electronics package was the determining factor.
And I agree, an Alembic is always an Alembic. Back to the wine thread...

[jazzyvee]

Hmm, not that I'd want to do this but, if I wanted a series II body but preferred to have Orion electronics package, I have an Orion Bass not a series II bass?
 
Would the price then be based on it being a Series II or an Orion?
Jazzyvee

[lg71]

Well, a Series instrument with Europa electronics, would still be a Series instrument (as long as the wood options are met), and you would call it a Series instrument with Europa electronics... (yes you would probably save money in that case)
 
Same goes for the other way around, if you had an Epic with Series electronics/PUs, it would still be an Epic but with Series electronics.
 
I have an old (nice) catalog, and I studied the various instruments, and what differentiate them is both, the wood(s) and electronics, as well as the body shape ...
If you ordered an Epic with a SC body, is wouldn't be an Epic anymore, it would an SC shape with Epic electronics and so on...
 
I am sorry, I cannot scan this catalog, but I think that what I said makes sense.
 
For example, my Aria as Electronics equivalent to the Anniversary fitted, if my Aria was an Epic, it would still be an Epic, but with Anniversary electronics, it wouldn't be an Anniversary instrument.  
 
Mica?
 
(Message edited by LG71 on November 30, 2006)

[mica]

Part of the confusion arises from the fact that body shapes and electronics packages that define a model share the name. Spoiler body, Spoiler electronics equals a Spoiler bass. But you can plug either Spoiler electronics or body shape into whatever model suits you.  
 
Wouldn't it be simple if we only made the models we offer? Well, we sometimes do, but most of the instruments we make are custom ordered, to exacting specifications. This was something that we were never really concerned about, because each one is unique. Our idea about the model determiner was traditionally the electronics package. Then things changed.  
 
Now, with so many instruments so heavily customized, we just choose to refer to most of what we make as C or custom. If it's got some customizations, but is still close in price to the starting model, it might retain the designator for the model. We feel this is what most people are really concerned with, how much is it worth?
 
Pricing is always based on features, so your example of an Orion with a Series II body (Standard Point, Standard Omega or Small Standard for a short scale) would be priced as an Orion with the features you've added.  
 
If you ordered a Series II and preferred the Orion electronics, we'd suggest you start with a lower priced model, perhaps an Essence, because one strict model definition we have is that Series I and II instruments must have Series I or II electronics. But, there is always custom!

[lg71]

Was anything I said correct?

[mica]

I didn't comment before since you posted while I was composing my response.  
 
I think you may have the opposite understanding of model determination. As I stated, it's traditionally based on the electronics package, but it gets confusing really fast, so we usually call those instruments with an indistinct model reference custom.  
 
Also, the last point I made was that to be a Series instrument, it must have Series I or II electronics - that's the one strict definition.  
 
As far as I know, your Aria doesn't have Anniversary electronics, they are extremely customized, so in your example, if you put those electronics in an Epic bass, we'd label it custom.
 
Hope this helps.

[lg71]

Yes, I guess I understood, but the way I explained it sounded wrong (as usual)
 
I was trying to refer to the Alembic 2000 catalog that I got from the Bass center a while back, which describes everything in details, it's nice and informative, I have learnt a lot from it. I see that Series 2 have 7 pieces laminates on the neck, semi hollow body for instance... and it's the only one with those exact features, so I assumed that a Series 2 instruments without the Series electronics, could be still a Series 2 instruments, but with a lighter electronic package, if for instance there was Orion electronics.
 
Sure, anything, different would be called a Custom model, but I guess, some members like to give their Alembic instruments a model name, Custom sound good to me. I call mine Arialembic (Aria body/wood + Alembic PUs/electronics) LG (my initials) MK2 (my second one), yet its not a Alembic, and certainly not an Aria SB anymore, and if described it to someone I would say that it was originally and Aria that had been upgraded with an Alembic circuit that is similar to the Anniversary (as a guidance only), but would confirm that it is different and as been modified/customized.
 
I tell you what, the bass is on my lap right now, as I am typing this email, and I soon as I post it, I'll keep going. I am enjoying it very much.

[dannobasso]

It is essentially whatever you design it to be. As you have seen and researched there are some very particular folks here. Some have presented their unique ideas to the family and they produced the vision. I could call up and discuss any number of options with Susan and depending on available scratch, it gets made in x number of months. ex I ordered an Excel 5 w/rouge guts, fatboys, bridgeblock,led's , custom inlays, black paint. Got one with spoiler guts, led's,no block, all mahogony, custom inlays black paint. Ordered 4 Spoilers with special options, inlays , spacing etc. Each time they made it happen. Some day my series 2 will be born (or adopted). When that day comes, i will pick up the phone and present my wish list to the family and they will produce my new Alembic.

[bob]

There was another lengthy discussion on this topic a year or two ago. I did a quick search earlier today, but didn't turn it up in the time I had available. If someone else can find that, it might save us some time here.
 
Wait, let me try this... yes, it is here.

[lidon2001]

I ordered my BalK as a SC Deluxe with a BalK body and received a MK serial number.  I guess I ordered a MK Deluxe with Stanley's neck dimensions without knowing it.  lol

[malthumb]

I wonder if from a model designation pov it might help to have suffixed models, where the suffix defines any difference in electronics.  Here's what I mean.....
 
A Spoiler with Spoiler electronics would be called a Spoiler.
 
A Spoiler with Signature electronics would be called a Spoiler Sig
 
My bass, A Mark King Deluxe with Series II electronics, would be considered a Mark King Deluxe II
 
Of course, the C for Custom designation would still be available for the truly unique instruments.
 
Just a thought.....
 
Peace,
 
James

[jazzyvee]

Hey for a split second when I looked at your profile photo it looked like you were balancing that bass perfectly on your foot with no hands. :-)
Jazzyvee.