Author Topic: JazzBass sound?  (Read 571 times)

corny

  • Guest
JazzBass sound?
« on: October 09, 2006, 11:50:39 PM »
Hi everybody,
 
I just offered my Mark King bass for sale in the swap-and-trade section.  
What I didn't realize when I bought it, for some stupid reason this bass sounds like Mark King; short, tight plucking tones (if you pluck that is). But I can't get a fat Marcus Miller slap/pluck sound out of it. Too clean.  
 
Anyone a suggestion to overcome this? I allready tried a compressor, which helps thickening the sound a bit.
 
Thanks,
Cor.

adriaan

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4320
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2006, 02:26:01 AM »
Heavier strings? Panpot more towards the neck pickup? Plucking closer to the neck?
 
Are you using the Q switches? Try different Q settings, with different settings for the filter pot.
 
You could try turning up the trimpots in the control cavity to get a hotter signal.
 
Otherwise, swapping the AXY/MXYs with FatBoys might be an idea.

lg71

  • Advanced Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 331
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2006, 11:29:52 AM »
I think Marcus bass has an Ash body and a bolt on Maple/Maple fingerboard for a start. Then, it is not easy to get a Jazz Bass sound out of an Alembic, if you really want that sound, you'd better get a Jazz Bass, and ash body makes a BIG difference next to a Jazz Bass with Alder body. I'd say, keep your Alembic my friend, nothing can sound, feel or play like an Alembic! My old Persuader which I had to part with unfortunately, had an amazing sound + feel that I cannot replicate with my Arialembic (Aria body/wood, Alembic PUs/electronics).
 
Further, unfortunately Alembic Filters are LOW PASS Filters only and the switch is the equivalent of the RESONANCE parameter on an old Analog synth (MOOG, ARP), while it's amazing what you can come up with, you are limited in a way, the BEST and ONLY option would be for ALEMBIC upgrade the LOW PASS filter and offer the option to select PEAKING or BAND PASS Filter as well as low pass, equivalent to a fully parametric EQ, so you could shape the sound directly from the bass itself.
 
My Aria SB sound for instance, is impossible to reproduce with my Arialembic, because the Aria sounds mid range and the Alembic sounds bass + treble, even if I use the filter to sweep down to a point were I can get close (more mid range because of a  Q-switch boost for instance...), there are still a couple of issues; 1) I cannot roll-off the bass, unless I use an external high pass filter, 2) the Alembic Low pass filter rolls-off everything above the selected cut point (obviously, it is a low pass filter), so you'd loose the higher frequencies, shame. That is the only complaint I would have with it. I don't think we need series 3 to get this implemented, the low pass filter is designed to act as low pass filter, yet, it is possible to make it a selectable low pass/band pass out of the same board, of course it would require some knowledge to do so, I don't have that knowledge unfortunately...
 
On the other hand, if I were you, I would keep my Alembic and would purchase a cheap Fender Jazz bass copy, and order a set of US fender pickups and you are sorted. Don't go for Bass wood for the body, Ash is snappy, Alder is more mellow/warmer. The good thing with Fender is that every single parts are very easy to find, purchase or replace/upgrade. I wouldn't sale my Alembic if I were you, give it some time, play it more, spend more time with it, try different fingering technique, you will find that the Alembics are like no other Basses on the market and they require a very different approach when you play them, I am only starting to understand + experience that, although I am to Alembic.
 
Regarding dynamic processors + EQs, I'd say that you can get a beefier tone out of your bass if you boost EQ between 40HZ and 120HZ max, and do not use shelving type EQ unless you can roll off below/around 40Hz, in fact, always roll off around 30/40Hz when you record the bass. Compressor are very helpful for slap, or fingering as well, especially if you record, in fact I'd say that if your compressor has the right setting, you can get an amazing tone out of your bass, and depending on how you set it, if you play for a while through it, and then switch it of... you my tell yourself, SCARY! LOL SLOW attack will be more aggressive and FAST attack will be more soft and boomy.
 
My other little complain, is that Alembic low pass filter, only goes down to 350Hz, I wished it could go lower than that, it would be very useful, especially to get some huge sub-sonic tones in conjunction with the Q-switches.
 
For those who are tempted to say: get an SF-2, my answer is:
let me win the lottery first  
 
HTH,
LG
 
(Message edited by lg71 on October 10, 2006)

jazzyvee

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8711
  • Bass, Guitar, Preamps.
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2006, 11:43:29 AM »
I have the SC version of the bass you have and that too doesn't give a good marcus miller sound, It can get reasonably close, but I understand it's not supposed to sound like MM.
 
If you want to stick with Alembic and get a very good marcus miller tone, can I suggest you look for an Europa. I got one last year and it is very easy to get a high quality Marcus Miller tone with the stingingly crisp bite to it. I've managed to get very close to the sound Marcus gets on the Silver Rain CD and also the earlier less middly tone he used on the winelight album.
 
Maybe you could sell your mk and look for an Europa.  They are cheaper too.
 
No idea what your bass rig is but in my experience, I think also the Europa is more forgiving if you haven't got a fantastic bass rig. The Signature models in my opinion don't sound fantastic until you plug them into a fantastic kit.
 
Just my two pennies worth.
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

hifiguy

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 462
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2006, 09:55:25 PM »
I have managed to get an excellent Jaco-esque sound from my SCS with the Q switches in, the filters set about 60% of wide open and the blend knob halfway between dead center and bridge only.  Gotta play with fingers to get the sound, and I give the midrange and presence on my vintage Hiwatt head a bit of a kick up. For that hard, barky staccato funk sound this is as good as my (Tokai made) FOJ Jazz.
 
The big-bottom Miller slap sound (as opposed to the twangy Stanley slap sound) is more problematic.  An Alembic is so clean sounding and balanced from the lowest E to the highest G that the interesting anomalies one finds in mass-produced basses aren't there.
 
Just as the only thing Robert Fripp can't play is streight 12-bar blues, an Alembic can do everything but that cool but woolly around the edges sound of many Jazz Basses.
 
lg71 is also right on the mark in saying that experimentation with your Alembic is worth your while.  The Sig electronics are very powerful and some wild and unexpected sounds are there to be found.  Ditto for his remarks on varied playing techniques.
 
Do not sell your Alembic - you will  regret it.

kmh364

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2290
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2006, 07:57:07 AM »
Try an EMW-equipped Orion with an ash body/maple top. I have two with the J-activators. You most certainly can get the J-bass sound PLUS mostly all of the sounds associated with any Alembic. Ron and Co. designed the original EMW COM with that express purpose in mind.
 
Cheers,
 
Kevin
 
PS, the original EMW COM:
 
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_emw.html
 
My EMW #1:
 
http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/8557.html?1093301442
 
My EMW#2
 
http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/20447.html?1135739441
 
PPS, FWIW I understand that bkbass Barry is getting very nice J-bass tone(s) out of his Alembic customs (although it took him years to find them), including a nice Jaco-esque fretless tone out of his '05 Rogue COTM:
 
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_jelly.html

ajdover

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1046
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2006, 09:44:45 AM »
I have two Essences .. one, the Burkha King, I used in Baghdad, Iraq.  The other is one I bought at a place in Raleigh, NC.
 
I can tell you unequivocably that I can achieve Jaco tones with both basses, using the bridge pickup only.  If that's what you're looking for, pick up an Essence.  You won't be sorry.
 
Alan

bkbass

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 246
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2006, 01:08:41 PM »
I'm able to coax a JB tone out of my 32 hot rodded spoiler with sig electronics. Neck p/u has full bass,Bridge p/u at the 4 O'Clock position blend pot at the 10 O'Clock position. I use 30-90 GHS SS round wounds. The low action and flex in the strings gets that Marcus sound (somewhat)I often muse of taking a lower action to the limit for a full bore Marcus tone but then I catch myself and ask why do I want to sound like Marcus?Marcus sounds like Marcus I'll just try to sound like BK. Oh yeah,the neck is maple w PH stringers the body is Maghogany with a thick accent of Maple and a Burl Walnut top.

57basstra

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1065
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2006, 01:24:52 PM »
Hey Corny. How about getting a Jazz bass? A player can't have too many basses, is what I say.
 
David

lg71

  • Advanced Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 331
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2006, 01:46:37 PM »
That's right, this is what I suggested too, and a Jazz bass doesn't have to be a genuine Fender Jazz to sound like a Jazz bass, a much cheaper copy would do the job, as long as you get the right wood combination. On the other hand, you won't be able to get a cheap copy of an Alembic, to sound like a real Alembic!

terryc

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2488
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2006, 07:25:16 AM »
My ten pennies worth(UK member)
I own a Mark King and to me it has all the sounds you need BUT and this is a big BUT, the sound as said by everyone before me depends on so many wood/tone setting combinations.
Mark King actually uses the Series II basses with the vari-Q controls so it is not exactly like the sounds he gets.
As one member has already said, don't sell it, you will not find a better bass in terms of playability, looks and sounds.
It took me the best part of a year to get to know what was inside my bass as far sounds go, the tone controls are extremely sensitive especially if you have just been used to passive controls and the Q switches offer even more variation. In  three words - DON'T GIVE UP!
I also own a Squier Precision which I put an Alembic P/J activator set with twin vols, bass & treble controls plus a Baddass bridge. The body is bass wood but the neck is a lovely flame maple piece(not rosewood fingerboard). This sounds totally different to my MK and is very close to the Marcus Miller sound(even though it has not got an alder body)
I guess it is as I say all the different combinations that produce the sound, I would suggest that when trying to find the tone is to keep all amp settings at the flat point so there is no colouration from the amp(I guess you know that already)

palmann

  • club
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2006, 10:09:41 AM »
Why do you want to sound like Marcus Miller?
 
Gruesse, Pablo

jazzyvee

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8711
  • Bass, Guitar, Preamps.
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2006, 11:58:32 PM »
When you  are playing a Marcus Miller track at a gig and want some authenticity in tonality and dynamics maybe?
 
Other than that  I'm sure we all have our own tone.
Keep on plucking. ;-)
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

bkbass

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 246
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2006, 10:23:18 AM »
jazzyvee,for personal satisfaction maybe... Do you think that the drunken fool (outside of myself and other club members)gives a rat's catooty if the bottom end is upheld by an Alembic or a Peavey? Now if you can get the guy to turn away from his pinball game for ten seconds when you tweak the filter that speaks volumes. Only happened twice to me.

corny

  • Guest
JazzBass sound?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2006, 01:05:25 AM »
The MM sound is merely proverbial. Listen to this guy on a 1972 JB:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HTr5P_xewk4
That's what I like, really FAT and funky.
 
This is my bass:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mOcy1xbECgk
To me it sounds snappy, but not as colorful as the JB.
 
Cor