Author Topic: So Alembic didn't create the "Tears for John" Dragon Wing bass.... (Read 888 times)

jsaylor · « **on:** January 09, 2007, 07:39:28 AM »

http://www.warwickbass.com/basses/buzzard_bo.html

Hmmmm....

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 09, 2007, 08:09:37 AM »

Jason, this is addressed in the COTM for the first DW, here.
To my eye, the original Buzzard seriously lacks the grace of Susan's version. (As a side note, it has occurred to me that if you were to slice the DW template at about the neck end of the neck p/u & flip the lower bouts, it would still look cool, and you'd have room for enough controls to make 8SK Mark look like a minimalist. If anyone has a little more curiosity and a lot more money than I do, feel free to use my idea so I can see if I'm right )

Peter

senmen · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2007, 02:50:39 PM »

Jason,
to have it correct: the Buzzard design was originally created by John Entwistle himself with some help of Mr.Wilfer of Warwick.
Nowadays Mr.Wilfer says that he designed the bass by himself which is simply not true.
Fact is that Chris Entwistle, Johns son, sold the right of the design and name Buzzard as well as the rights on the name John Entwistle in collaboration with musical instruments to Warwick.
This is also the reason why Warick forbid Status through their lawyers to produce the Buzzard I anymore nor to name the still in production B2 Buzzard.
He also fools people as he gives certificates with the new limited Warwick Buzzards where there is a signature of him and John in the same color of which people may think that John had signed them which is not true.

Oliver (Spyderman)

jsaylor · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2007, 05:54:20 PM »

Who's Jason?
Yeah, its not right that they have the signed certificates. But what amazes me is, I though John only used Gibson and Alembic, now I'm starting to think he used Gibson/Warwick/maybe others and Alembic copied the design. Regardless, it's a great design. Saying the Alembic is better is a matter of opinion. Cosmetically to me atleast, the Alembic wins hands down, regardless if it was the original or not.

lothartu · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2007, 07:08:06 PM »

Make sure to give this a quick read if you haven't already.

http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_dragonwing.html

Personally I don't see the Alembic Dragonwing design as a copy of a Buzzard. I see it as Alembic saying Lets design a bass that we think John will really dig.

-Jim

ajdover · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2007, 12:51:26 AM »

Gents,

When I was at the Mothership in August, I talked to Susan about this and many other things. What she told me was that John approached her at least once a year asking Alembic to make a copy of the Buzzard for him, but Susan always told him it was too ugly and wouldn't do it. Instead, she designed the DW, and the rest is history. Can't say that the Buzzard is better aesthetically, but the recordings I've heard are nothing short of amazing. However, in my view, the DW more than holds its own against the Buzzard from a tonal point of view.

My two cents,

Alan

keith_h · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2007, 04:11:05 AM »

Jordon,
Actually John used many basses throughout his career. In his earlier years he used both VOX and Fender. Also the Buzzard basses he was using towards the end were Status not Warwick as I recall.
Oliver, our resident John Entwistle expert, can correct me if I'm wrong.

Keith

adriaan · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2007, 04:27:32 AM »

Coming back to the original post - if you open the hyperlink, the Warwick Buzzard bolt-on just does not look the part.

And if you look for their take on the Exploiter on the same site, the Stryker (formerly known as Cruiser, which is still the page name at the end of the URL) it goes bad again:

With the full support of the John Entwistle estate, Warwick is proud to introduce the Stryker, which is a design that John made popular both with the Who and on his solo projects.

No credits to Alembic, or even Gibson for that matter.

jacko · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2007, 06:00:27 AM »

Jordan.
I found a pretty informative webpage that gives a superb rundown of all John's equipment here

Graeme

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2007, 06:21:06 AM »

Jordan - sorry about the Jason. Thought I remembered - should have checked your profile before I typed (don't feel too bad - 2 weeks before I got married, I was introducing her with This is my fiancee....um, er.....)

Peter

worldfamousandy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2007, 07:12:19 AM »

Entwistle gave me a Warwick Buzzard several years ago. Oddly enough, it has no serial number, and the only way that you can guess it's a Warwick is the W on the tailpiece. I sent it in for repairs once, and the Warwick people would only go so far as to say, All indications are that we probably built it. I'm guessing it was some kind of prototype, especially because of the poor balance of the instrument. The neck dive make this axe very difficult to play.

Aesthetically, it is quite a unique piece. My Series 1 was back at Alembic for over a year for a repair one time, and I had to use the Buzzard on all my gigs. You can imagine the looks I got when I pulled that sucker out of its flight case for a jazz standards gig at the country club! I was too loud before I plugged in!

Andy Calder
www.andycalderbass.com

jacko · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2007, 07:15:22 AM »

Entwistle gave me a Warwick Buzzard several years ago

Why do I suddenly feel like screaming!!

Graeme the jealous as hell one.

southpaw · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2007, 07:22:53 AM »

I recall somewhere JE joking about the advantage of the Buzzard was that it hangs on the back of his bar stool... No comparison; the DW is far better looking in every way. Regarding early JE basses, John was a huge fan of Fender P basses, look at the opening page of his Bass Culture book for an amazing collection of P basses. Also in the DVD Thunderfingers he says his go to the grave bass is his Frankenstein P bass made up of parts from several P basses, he says he recorded several albums with it.

lbpesq · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2007, 07:29:54 AM »

Peter:

Boy, can I relate. My wife's sister was engaged to Bill Kreutzmann (before I met my wife). After we were married, I was invited to an art showing Kreutzmann had in Mill Valley. We went. Kreutzmann immediately recognized my wife, who said hello and then introduced me as: This is my husband. He's a deadhead No name, no successful lawyer, nuthin but 'he's a deadhead'!
She's still living it down!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled thread. That Buzzard is buzz-ugly IMHO. The top right horn looks like it broke off and is hanging by a thread. Susan was right. The DW had MUCH nicer lines. again IMHO.

Bill, tgo

jsaylor · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2007, 01:30:10 PM »

Andy,you sure are a lucky one!

adriaan , I can see them giving Gibson credit, as it is their design, but why Alembic?