Author Topic: Series II Pick-up select switch  (Read 589 times)

mele_aloha

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 05:25:53 PM »
I didn't forget you either tb and all the rest!!!
 
See ya's in a little bit, Paul

tbrannon

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 06:21:20 PM »
Paul,
 
Sorry if I've made this a difficult decision for you- I certainly didn't have any idea that I'd contribute to this dilemma.  I think part of my love of the pan control on my bass is because the majority of the basses I've owned haven't had a pan- simply volume and pickup selector.  Until now, I've never had a way to really blend pickups.  The few basses I've ever owned that did have a pan knob also had Bridge pickups that sounded like a sick goose, so until I became an Alembic owner, a useful pan knob and a decent bridge sound was unknown to me.  
 
I think you're in a win-win situation, regardless of what you choose.  I'm also glad that the fellas are chiming in on this thread.  It's good to have guys like Steve, Terry and others who have owned basses equipped both ways.  They'll be truly able to tell you the benefits of each setup.
 
BTW: This thread has now come full circle since I bought the Rogue from Charles (crgaston).  Perhaps he might be able to shed a little light on this since he's obviously played a pan equipped bass and has a Custom Series II (Charles' Dragonfly in FTC) or order.
 
Sorry to put you on the spot Charles =)
 
Toby

mele_aloha

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2007, 06:30:25 PM »
That's Great Toby, I think this thread is awesome in that I can definately make a decision.
 
I want to point out that my Carvin has the pan and I like it but only as much as I like the bass itself which isn't much!
 
Got to go for a minute but be right back, thanks, P

mele_aloha

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2007, 06:35:50 PM »
 
 
(Message edited by mele_aloha on April 19, 2007)

mele_aloha

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2007, 06:36:41 PM »
I'm in a delimma right now as the Travel Channel is showing a special on the Secrets of Hawaii and I have to watch the store right now and I really want to read this post and talk to you guys. I'll close the store soon!
 
P

dtrice

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2007, 09:56:06 PM »
Thanks for the info, Charles.  I like the idea of a Prepped for Series bass.  That would mean I got get a bass sooner and then save up for the electronics later. Does anyone know what is involved in changing a non-prepped Anniversary equipped bass to Series? Is it financially reasonable to upgrade or is it better to just buy a new bass? Sorry to digress from the point of the original post.
 
(Message edited by dtrice on April 18, 2007)

the_8_string_king

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2007, 11:01:59 PM »
Daniel, I just got a little info on this directly from Mica a few days ago... I'm still waiting to get final word on a quote and all the details; but this is the info/understanding I have so far (and anyone else who knows more and who can correct any errors/omissions please chime in):
 
Currently, most Alembics are 1.5 inches thick; instruments with side jacks -like the Europa- need to be slightly thicker -1.6 inches thick- and the Series instruments need to be even a little thicker -1.7 inches thick.
 
I believe Mica said this is because of the electronics -primarily/specifically the pots, I think.  My understanding is that most instruments simply can not be retrofitted for Series electronics -because they're not thick enough.  It's not clear to me whether it's completely impossible or merely more difficult/problematic/expensive... but I get the impression they either can't or won't do it in general because of the issues.  I don't know if any exceptions have/can be made.
 
Mica told me the Series prep includes hollowing out the body cavities (I think Series instruments usually have 3 cavities), putting silver shielding on/around all these cavities, routing for (and installing) the dummy humcancelling pickup, and building the bass with a thicker body.  I don't want to quote the price, because she intimated she'd only recently got back into sales since Valentino's departure, and wasn't sure of the figure she gave me.  Also, you'd have to decide if you wanted continueous woodplates at that point... and it would cost more since Series instruments require at least 2 cavities.  She said 3 cavities are standard/recommended -although she added that it has been done with just two cavities, either by completely eliminating the battery option (which makes the instrument completely dependent on the external power supply) or sometime by fitting the battery(s?) into where the electronics go (although she said Mr. W doesn't like this option, and putting the battery(s?) in & out requires more work... removing some of the electronics with a screwdriver, I think).
 
I think the usual arrangement is to get either the similar Signature or Anniversery electronics for the Series prep.  And yeah, the thinking is, of course, that you can be set up to get the Series electronics down the road when you have the money to upgrade.  I simply can't afford the Series setup at this point -at least with the Coco Bolo, BTCers, custom neck, and continueous woodplates I'm getting... but if the cost for the Series prep is affordable, I can set myself up to be able to upgrade in the future.  So I'm just waiting to get a quote on the price -and then I'll decide, and letcha know!
 
Paul -glad this helped!

dtrice

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2007, 03:33:21 PM »
I know how that goes as far as money is concerned. I didn't know Valentino left! Man where was I? Yeah that definately helped, Paul!

bkbass

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2007, 08:21:50 AM »
The second to last customized Rogue I ordered had the slightly wider body to accomdate the full series II electronics package. I found out that I don't really use the pickup selector switch at all,I just end up leaving both pick ups on and adjust the volumes as needed.Although I do use it for the standby mode to save the batteries on occasion. On the last Rogue,I wanted that sexy Rogue shape to be the smaller petite original size but I didn't want to give up the sound of the series II as I'm hooked. For me there simply isn't any better. So I chose to go with a standby switch instead of the rotary switch which gives me the best of both worlds. This next build will may combine the best of series and signature electronics in the form of a series I with a blend control instead two volumes. The blend control and switches certainly gives up some of the ultimate control but in the heat of battle it's just so much quicker to get from a to b. I can understand why Stanley prefers switches over knobs.

the_8_string_king

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2007, 04:53:15 PM »
Hey guys!  Two things, real quick...
 
(1) Barry: My understanding is that the standby mode DOES NOT save batteries... that the batteries continue to drain as long as the (standard) plug is plugged in.  So one of us is in error.  And I'd like to be set straight.  (I've always wondered about WHY the basses would be set up to keep draining power in the standby position... barring some reason -which I assume there is [assuming it's true in the first place]- it seems illogical... why not save power when it's on standby?)
 
(2) Daniel, I, the 8-String King, am actually Mark!  The quote above at the end of my last post Paul -glad this helped was directed at member mele alohoa whose name is Paul -in response to his thanking me for sharing info about Serie II electronics and options!
 
Take care, all!

the_8_string_king

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2007, 04:55:59 PM »
(Oops, I misquoted Paul's member name mele aloha!!!  Sorry Paul, typo!)
 
By the way, Barry, your Coco Bolo Series II Rogue is one of my top 7 favorite Coco Bolo Alembics of all time... and I used it as a reference for what I requested on/for my current Custom-in-progress!!!

mele_aloha

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2007, 08:45:57 PM »
Know problem Mark%% lol

mele_aloha

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2007, 09:08:44 PM »
Hi you friends,
 
I finally get to sit down here at my computer and check in for a while here on this beautiful Aloha Friday. What a hecktick week though!
 
Thanks for all of the opinions on this subject. Even the ones that get started on the side. It's all fun and useful!
 
You know, after readiing everybody's pro's and con's, one thing I would like to emphasize in my opinion is that the pan isn't necessarily comparable to the volumes in that paning the pick-ups is more of an affect all of it's own. You know what I mean? It's almost like a pedal box or something in that it does a type of mixing that is completely different than volume controls.
 
 Volume controls are simply a tool of their own. First I would choose the volume and then I would mess around with the pan/mix to come up with completely different tones if you will. Ya, tones, that's the ticket!!  
 
I Love to blend my pick-ups on my Carvin which has this same pan. When I get into blending pick-ups with the pan control I get some really great tones all in themselves which would take a heck of alot more playing around with you might say than performing it with the volume controls.
 
So for me I am just concerned with what someone mentioned about this pan control loosing some voltage or volume. Then it could become intruding or problamatic. Do you all see what I am saying though?
 
What's your all takes on this subject? Any feedback on this fine Friday Eve?
 
Come on, let's hear it, OK?
 
Tanks, Pablo

mele_aloha

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2007, 09:21:31 PM »
Hey Mark, Are you out there?
 
Ya know, I really honestly would like to have those bass/trebles controls on my bass. The only problem is that it would just be to many knobs for me especially on my bass as it is probably the smallest top bass there is, the balance K.
 
I have really been thinking it out as I have had alot of time to as you know and there is no substituting anything else in order to bring them on board. I am totally happy with the controls the way the are except for the possiblity of this pan. And this may become an extra knob (#10) if I decide on it as I would not want to substitute the pick-up switch for it.
 
I really appreciate all of your hard work concerning my delimma and all of your senario's.
 
Thank you so much for your help.
 
What do you think about what I say above?
 
P.S. I am getting one dimmer for both side and front L.E.D.s.
 
Thank you, Paul
 
(Message edited by mele_aloha on April 20, 2007)

the_8_string_king

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Series II Pick-up select switch
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2007, 11:49:56 PM »
Hey there, Paul.
 
Just got home from a nice dinner with my sweetie and our friend, and then I was doing a little research on the site to try and help you.
 
I'm going to roll through some things semi-randomly -without worrying too much about the order, or having great form.
 
First of all, you're set on the Series II.  That comes standard with 8 controls -as I mentioned above.  Plus you want 2 dimmers for the LEDs.  Let's start there.
 
                    LED DIMMER THOUGHTS:
By all accounts, a variable dimmer is a must-have (or should-have) for the front Laser LEDs... they're so bright... you just REALLY want to have this control.  On the other hand, it might not be as important with the side LEDs -they're not as bright.  Also, you say that you want a dimmer... but have you considered how the (side) LEDs will be set up?  By this, I mean... my understanding is that, as a rule, they're set up to ALWAYS BE ON on a Series bass -when the external power supply is plugged in.  I could be wrong about this, so CONFIRM this.  But (if I'm right) you have to ASK to have an off/on switch.  Also, I'm pretty sure that (in general) the LEDs WILL NOT work WITHOUT the 5-pin/external power supply UNLESS YOU SPECIFICALLY ASK THEM TO MAKE AN EXTRA BATTERY CAVITY.  My Custom Europa takes 4 9-volts -for the side LEDs.  This probably doesn't matter to you... but maybe it does.  IF you want to have the option to turn (either the front and/or side) LEDs off/on and/or be able to turn them on WITHOUT the external power supple (for example, with a wireless system, for gigs) you might want to inquire -NOT ASSUME- and make sure you'll get the setup you want.  If you want to have an on/off switch -ask/make sure you get one.  If you want to be able to use the LEDs without the power supply, ask/make sure.  Anyway, you might, for example, want a variable dimmer for the front, but have the sides be on all the time (only with the power supply plugged in) and have a 3-position toggle offer 3 settings for the SIDE LEDs.  I don't require any dimming for side LEDs.  But of course, you're not me.  But if/since you're concerned about knobs and space, a 3-position toggle might be enough for you -for the side LEDs.  (And only you can say.)  A 3-position toggle could let you choose between, say LEDs off/on(1/2 power)/on(full power).  Or again, you could consider eliminating the side dimmer.
 
So this is something for you to figure out.  Do you want them to automatically come on (only) when the power supply is plugged in?  Do you want the option of having the (front and/or side) LEDs work WITHOUT the power supply?  Do you want an off/on switch for the side LEDs?  Do you want/need a dimmer for the side, and if so, do you want/need a knob, or will a 3-position toggle do?  If they were set up to always be on, you could have 3 levels of brightness with a 3-position toggle; or you could have a 3-position toggle that offers you 2 settings and an off position.  Only you can answer these questions... but Alembic can do it any of these ways.  I recall seeing at least one Series owner lamenting that he couldn't use his LEDs when playing wireless (which can't be done without the external power supply).  So if this is a concern, you may want them to route a cavity to install 9 volts for the LEDs.  I don't even know if they can do this for the Laser LEDs... it might not be an option for them... they might eat too much power.  I just don't know -so IF this important -find out from someone who DOES know.
 
Another thing that MIGHT be a possiblity would be to see if they could have an innovation that does two functions at once.  For example, see if they could make you a master volume with a center detent (like the pan controls) that works as a volume control with (say, for example side) LEDs on one way, and off the other way.  This should be possible... but whether it would be an easy quick rig up, or an long, expensive custom job... you'd have to check with Mica or Ron.
 
               THOUGHT ON LOTS OF KNOBS:
 
Again, the standard Series II setup has 8 controls, basically all knobs.  And you're going to add at least one more knob for the Laser LED dimmer, and probably another knob (or toggle) for the side LED dimmer.  So that's 10 controls.  On the other hand, you may eliminate 2 of those knobs if you elect to go for a master volume/pan setup -instead of the 3 volume & pickup selector setup -which would put you back to the status quo of 8 controls.  Or you could consider really going nuts and ADDING another knob -a balance control- and a toggle switch to choose between the 3 volume system and a volume/pan setup.  I don't think they've done this before, and it would be a custom setup, and likely expensive.  You probably aren't even interested, and would probably prefer to do an either/or... choose either the standard Series setup OR the simplified master volume/pan setup seen in the two examples I referred you to above, and the one Steve linked you to.  But if I'm wrong and it does interest you (which doesn't sound like the case, especially as it would mean more knobs!) then you could ask.
 
But I will tell you that there is no need to be afraid of lots of knobs and controls.  It can be done, and it can work well.  It's all about space efficiency, and layout.
 
If you want bass and treble controls, you should get them.  There are LOTs of different options and ways to address this need, and you can find a way to balance getting these controls with your concerns.  If you want bass & treble controls, remember that you can choose knobs -which take up more space (and/but are more versatile) or toggles (which are less versatile but take up less space).  And you can choose to have individual controls for each pickup (twice as many controls) or you could just have one set of master bass & treble controls.  You could also mix & match.  For example, in my opinion, a variable bass control (knob) is much more important/useful on an Alembic than a variable treble control.  This is because if you DON'T have one, the only way to boost the bass is by turning the filter all the way down -which means you filter out all the frequencies above that point.  A variable treble control is less important, as it's easier to adjust those frequencies with the filter & Q.
 
I'd recommend getting at least one MASTER SET of 3-position bass & treble quick change boost/flat/cut toggles.  These two little switches take up VERY LITTLE space.  Better yet, get a set for each pickup... they still wouldn't take up much space.  Another idea would be to have ONE (master) treble toggle and ONE (master) bass KNOB.  Again, that wouldn't take up much space.  Finally, you might consider 2 treble toggles (one for each pickup) and 2 bass KNOBS (one for each pickup).  But that's getting knobby.  I don't think treble knobs are something that you should pursue, based on your concerns.
 
So you could think about this.  Probably the best thing for you would be one of three things: (1) have just one (master) set of bass & treble toggles... this takes up VERY LITTLE space, and is nothing to worry about, trust me.  (2) You could get 2 sets, one for each pickup.  (3) you could get ONE treble toggle and ONE bass KNOB.  This would only add a little space.
 
You should think about this, study some layouts of other custom Alembics with lots of controls, and maybe play around with drawing some layouts for yourself.  You can use pennies and dimes on an index card, and move 'em around to make mockups for different configurations.
 
My Europa has SIXTEEN controls... and it's incredibly intuitive and easy to use.  I NEVER have any problems, and can get any sound variations I want quickly, consistently, and easily.  But I had them design it in a very logical and space-efficient way.
 
I'm going to give you some links and references to other Alembics on the site that you may or may not have seen -to study and have at your disposal for reference purposes.  I'm new at doing links, so some I'll have to describe/tell you how to get to.  And I may have to submit some as separate posts.  I'll get started now.
 
First, here's Understated Elegance -from the Custom Archives.  It's another Series Bass with a master volume, pan/balance, and INDIVIDUAL bass & treble KNOBS for each pickup -laid out in a very simple and elegant manner: http://www.alembic.com/info/JEfretless.html
 
Next, check out the Big Bass, which also has INDIVIDUAL bass & treble KNOBS for each pickup (and which also is a Series Bass: http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_yahya.html
 
Finally, I'll try and post a close-up of my bass and it's control layout:

 
 
You can see I've got 8 knobs, basically as knobby as a standard Series II setup... AND I've also got 8 toggles switches, 4 pairs set between the knobs... they don't get in the way at all.
 
You could easily do something like this -ESPECIALLY if you elect to elimate the 3 volume/pickup selector setup.  Imagine something similar for your setup, like my bass above, but with only single toggles in-between the knobs.
 
Imagine the top row being a master knob in the center, filter knobs on either side, with individual 3-position boost/flat/cut treble toggles in-between; middle row, 2 CVQs; lower row, pan/balance knob in the middle, side and front off-to-maximum dimmer knobs on either side, and individual 3-position boost/flat/cut bass toggles in-between.  12 controls total: 8 knobs, 4 toggles, simple, symettrical, space-efficient, and giving you extra-awesome control.
 
Of course, this suggested layout is just one of many; it's just to offer a simple, conservative, and mininalistic -yet extra flexible arrangement.
 
One final example to look at:  http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/2936.html?1066333385
 
If this link doesn't work, do it the hard way by going to Factory To Customer, scroll to the bottom and click on Archive through Dec 31st 2003, and look for For Harrison.  Another awesome Alembic with LOTS of controls -individual bass & treble KNOBS for each pickup.
 
Oh yeah, another really cool one on the main FTC page -about 1/2way down- is Rory's custom bass (or maybe it's Rory's custom 6-String bass?... it has LOT's of controls... and note that it's a BALANCE K with INDIVIDUAL bass and treble controls for EACH PICKUP IN ADDITION to having the standard EIGHT CONTROLS of ANNIVERSARY ELECTRONICS!!!
 
So it can be done!!!  You need have no fear of lot's of knobs!!! If you want bass & treble controls... GET 'EM!!! If you want to go all the way, you can get knobs for each pickup!!!  Just look and see... it has been done!  And obviously, doing something more conservative like having just a single set of master toggles or knobs or having two sets of toggles would be no problem -even on the small Balance K body.  Rory's awesome custom is proof.  (And you should check it out, 'cause it's just an absolutely stunning Balance K -one of the nicest I've EVER seen.  It was the one that pushed me over the edge into getting the Balance K body!!!)
 
Take care, Paul, hope this helps!!!  I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing your masterpiece when it gets going!  You're neck is already an instant classic, and one of the coolest I've EVER seen!!!
 
Mark