Author Topic: Anybody know what this is?  (Read 670 times)

meestursparkle

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Anybody know what this is?
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2007, 07:00:34 PM »
Hi made_a_rose
 
It is not the second guitar, it is more like the 600th guitar I have sold from Japan. Second Alembic.
Is pulling a guitar a sign of being untrustworthy?
Because I have plenty of private buyers and OFTEN pull guitars, usually Gibsons. As I am sure you know Alembics are much more rare.
If I get a decent offer outside of EBay I will pull this one too.

bsee

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« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2007, 07:24:42 PM »
This isn't the place to fight this out.  
 
It is generally unethical to sell outside of eBay when eBay generates the lead, but perfectly fine to do so if there is other advertising that does the job.  If you do the former and get reported, you can get your account canceled and eBay might even come after you for the fees you evaded.
 
It is also good form to make note in your auction that you are advertising the item outside of eBay and might pull the auction as a result.

FC Bass

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« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2007, 12:43:10 AM »
My Elan was also pulled from Ebay, I emailed the seller a good offer (lower than the BIN option), he agreed and pulled the bass from Ebay, everybody happy :-)
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meestursparkle

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« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2007, 06:02:56 AM »
Seeing that eBay is always so fair and impartial I think it is very important that we all follow bsee's ethical guidelines!!

bsee

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« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2007, 12:13:57 PM »
No, Flip, not everybody happy.  When a seller puts something on eBay, they pay a small insertion fee with the promise of paying a percentage of the final sale price when the item sells.  When eBay generates the lead that results in a sale, they are entitled to that fee and evading it by pulling the listing is far from ethical.
 
If you don't like eBay's policies or politics, then use some other means to advertise your items for sale.  
 
Jim, I may be a bit sensitive but your reply comes across as quite sarcastic.  Espousing such a belief should certainly make it clear to anyone who might want to do business with you about your level of integrity.

the_8_string_king

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« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2007, 06:51:43 PM »
I just have to say something about this.
 
I was shafted a few years ago by eBay... and PayPal.
 
It was a black and white case... as cut and dry as they come.
 
I bought a DVD set advertised as brand new.  It was in fact (obviously) a pirated set of copyrighted material recorded from a home recording set.
 
The short version of the story is that BOTH eBay and PayPal elected to screw me -DESPITE having copies of the original ads and more than enough information sufficient for any fool to see that I was the wronged party.
 
My personal experience with eBay & PayPal, as well as that of several other people (some of whom are members of this forum) leads me to conclude that eBay is without honor/integrity/ethics.  Among many offenses, they don't follow their own explicitly stated policies.
 
So as far as I'm concerned, they've declared open season on themselves.  I personally won't use them again, for anything, EVER.
 
But I think anyone who wants to use them for their benefit... to frankly disregard their policies and endeavor to screw them... has every justification.
 
EBay will NOT hesitate to screw you or me.  Period.  They won't.  And when they do, they WILL NOT follow their own policies.  Just try and jump through all their hoops and see what it gets you.  I did.  Been there, done that.
 
EBay has little to no integrity, ethics, and honor.  Thus, they have NO RATIONAL GROUNDS WHATSOEVER upon which to get indignant over any little guy doing to them what they routinely do to others on a regular basis.
 
The golden rule is a great concept -for those who practice it themselves.  Conversely, those who live by the sword can, do, and should die by the sword.
 
Screw EBay.  On the day they live up to their own policies (and apololgize and make amends to their many victims) I'll support the notion that they should be treated honorably.  Until then, they should be all means be treated with the same contempt and disregard they routinely display towards others.
 
And that's ALL I have to say on the subject... carefully and rationally thought out -and I stand behind it.
 
P.S.  I DID NOT end up getting screwed.  My credit card company backed me up, and I reported BOTH the criminals AND eBay to the FBI.
 
P.S. II Any time you like, you can do a search, and find that eBay sells pirated copyrighted materials on a daily basis.  Do a search for TV series (complete sets) that don't exist yet.  Like Columbo, or Malcolm in the Middle to name just a few.
 
They KNOW that they're involved in the ILLEGAL sale of these pirated materials.  I informed them, by letter, email, and phone.  THEY JUST DON'T CARE.  They do what they can get away with.  PERIOD.  So, on what rational grounds can they -or anyone else- suggest that others shouldn't do it to them?  (Rhetorical question)

meestursparkle

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« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2007, 07:29:35 PM »
Ebay is a tyrant!! They treat everyone like crap because they have about 1/10th of the employees that they need to do a fair and decent job. ALL they care about is money. I can report some new ebayer stealing my pictures (obviously mine as I have been selling for years and the pictures all have the same background) they do NOTHING!!
I have zero problem not paying them their fees every now and then. ZERO. If that makes me unethical then I guess I am unethical. Though I would imagine that 99.6 % of my customers would disagree.
 
I sell most of my wares on eBay because they are the site most people use I am not going anywhere else for that. They have, in effect, a monopoly on  decent prices. Their monopoly needs to be broken.  
 
Many of the great nations of today were formed by people who broke the unfair rules of tyrants!! They did not use some other means to find somewhere to live on their own terms. They took what they felt was rightfully theirs and in many cases they are now considered heroes. History is full of examples of people being unethical for the greater good. Slavery, American Revolution, French Revolution......................
Sorry, if this analogy seems too much , I guess my point is, true morality is deciding for yourself what is ethical and what is not. Just because a rule is out there does not make you unethical just because you break it.
Besides eBay has more than just ethics on their side. They and paypal offer seller and buyer protection and if you do a deal outside of eBay it is obviously not covered by this. Many people realize that their protection is worthless; eBay and Paypal will do ANYTHING in their power to not honor it.

David Houck

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« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2007, 07:42:32 PM »
Before this thread goes any further, I would like to cordially invite all persons reading this post to read, or reread as the case may be, the posting guidelines.
 
Thanks and enjoy.
 
(Message edited by davehouck on July 30, 2007)

the_8_string_king

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« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2007, 08:25:57 PM »
On your suggestion, Dave, I re-read the posting guidelines for... well, AT LEAST the 3rd or 4th time.
 
I've taken the liberty of copying them here, below:
 
Guidelines for posting.  
 
This club has grown over the past few years and represents, in my view, a community. There are a number of folks who have been members since this club was formed and who have been regular contributors. And there have been members who have joined along the way and have been regular contributors too. There are also those folks who have been members for a while but contribute only occasionally. And there are those who come by for a short spell and then are gone.  
 
The one thing we all have in common is our appreciation of Alembic basses and guitars. Beyond that we are a diverse group. Our membership is worldwide; members of the Alembic club are members of a global community. We find ourselves in various economic situations, various states of health, and various mental and emotional states as well. We have differing political views and spiritual practices. We have varying tastes in music; and we play through a wide assortment of rigs and use a wide variety of strings. Our members represent a very wide range of ages.  
 
It has been my observation that the membership of our community has through their posts developed a practice of treating each other with respect and courtesy, which is reflected in the overall feel of the community. Thus there have come to be certain expectations of behavior. New members frequently remark about how helpful our members are and what a friendly place the club is.  
 
It has been stated many times in past threads that our discussion group differs substantially from many other usenet and internet discussion groups, that our friendliness and helpfulness is somewhat unusual compared to other groups. Our members have grown to value this feeling of community and desire to preserve it. To this end I offer the following posting guidelines.  
 
- Treat all members with respect and kindness, and treat yourself with respect and kindness as well.  
 
- AVOID USING LANGUAGE THAT OTHERS MAY FIND OFFENSIVE. Other people will find offensive, remarks that are degrading sexually, that are ethnically or racially oriented, that are patently political, or that may present some particular religious view. Many people find vulgar language to be distasteful.  
 
- Craft your post as if you expect that the mother of someone you hold dear reads all the posts.  
 
- Keep in mind that you do not know where someone else is in life. When you read a message posted by someone, you don?t know the context in which the post was written. All of us live lives of suffering. Someone who?s just made a post may also have just had a bad day at work, been involved in a traffic accident, may be dealing with personal or family illness, etc. Treating each other with respect involves being aware that all people suffer and are deserving of our compassion.  
 
- Employ some level of humility. We all love our instruments. We each have our own ideas about what makes a great instrument. But treating each other with respect is to recognize that others have different ideas and that others love their instruments too. Members will have differing preferences for such things as body styles and electronics packages; and no one person?s preference is a better preference than anyone else?s.  
 
- Breath. If someone posts something that makes you angry or upset, pause before responding. Remember, you don?t know the context; this person may be going through a particularly traumatic time in life; or this person may have been brought up in an environment that was significantly different from yours; or this person may be used to discussions on other boards where there is little regard for the feelings of others. So pause before responding, then try crafting a response that considers context and employs respect.  
 
- Don?t beat yourself up. We all make mistakes. If you post something that you later regret, just be present with that feeling of regret and learn from it. Then jump back in and post something else.  
 
- Use the edit button. In the top right hand corner of your post is the edit icon. You can edit a post for up to 72 hours after it?s initially posted. You cannot add pictures and links in the edit process. Keep in mind that when you edit a post it does not show up as a new post. The longer you wait to edit a post, the less likely others will notice that it has been edited. Thus editing is more useful when it?s fairly immediate.  
 
- There are some general usenet practices that should be followed in any discussion group. For instance, using all caps is considered to be shouting and thus is generally considered to be inappropriate. If you are new to our group, you may want to observe the posts of others and just follow their example.  
 
- There are also some aspects of copyright that should be considered as well. When thinking of copying text or pictures from another site to post on the board, it?s probably a good idea to check to see if the site has a copyright message at the bottom of the page. At the very least it may be a good idea to at least reference the other cite with a link.  
 
- It is also a good idea to keep in mind that this discussion board is being provided for our use by our hosts at Alembic, and a link to the board is prominently displayed on Alembic?s web site. We are essentially in their home and we should act as if we were invited into the very living room of the Wickersham household.  
 
 
The grocery store story.  
 
A shopper is in line at the checkout register. This particular shopper is self absorbed at the moment; he?s had another bad day at work, he hates his boss, he?s in a hurry to get home and this line is moving too slowly. Why can?t the checkout person move faster, why didn?t that other shopper start filling out the check while the groceries were still being scanned, why don?t they open another register. The self absorbed shopper gets to the register and scowls at the checkout person, letting them know how angry he is at how slowly the line has moved. He doesn?t know where this person is in life, but has acted in a hurtful way. Chances are his actions will effect the actions of the checkout person negatively. The checkout person may become angry and then may act on this anger when encountering the next person in line.  
 
A shopper is in line at the checkout register. This particular shopper may have had a bad day at work and may have a poor relationship with his boss, and may need to be home at a certain time, but at the moment he?s in line at the grocery store. Life is not about him; life is the interaction of all those around him at this moment in time. When he gets to the register he genuinely smiles to the checkout person; the checkout person is a fellow human being, and since all of us suffer, this person is deserving of compassion. Chances are this action will effect the actions of the checkout person positively. The checkout person may feel a little better and may smile when encountering the next person in line.  
 
This is what I refer to as karma. But whatever it?s called, it seems to be a tool for living life that works. Its results can be confirmed by observation. When you treat others with respect, kindness and compassion, our community, the world we live in, becomes a better place for all of us.
 
I took the liberty of putting the phrase AVOID USING LANGUAGE THAT OTHERS MAY FIND OFFENSIVE in bold.
 
To make a point.
 
Which is: good luck.
 
There is NO LANGUAGE that cannot be found arbitrarily offensive by a snivelly whiner.  I found this out recently myself, on this website, which is why, unfortunately, I don't post much here anymore.
 
ANYTHING can be found offensive.  Period
 
And what's so horrible about offensive?  Are we so insecure that we must live in perpetual fear of the offensive? (Rhetorical question)
 
Personally, I find very little to be more offensive than the notion that civilized, rational discourse should be subject to self-censorship to avoid offending someone.
 
Take my word for it.  Anyone can (and will) be offended by anything.  And if offense is the standard of what it will become permissable to civilly discuss... then before long, we WILL NOT discuss ANYTHING of importance.
 
Because, EVERYTHING that is IMPORTANT to discuss is (at least, potentially, to someone) offensive.
 
It's that simple.  Offensive... and important... they're two flip sides of the same coin... and they simply CAN NOT be separated.  PERIOD.
 
Think about it.  Or don't.
 
Take care, gang.  Depending on the response, I may or may not post here anymore -for whatever it is (or isn't) worth.

David Houck

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« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2007, 09:15:06 PM »
Using Mark's question as a starting point, are we so insecure that we must live in perpetual fear of the offensive?, I would like to offer the following thoughts to anyone who finds them of interest.
 
In my view, treating others with selfless compassion is not living in fear; rather I tend to see it as freedom itself.  Freedom from being attached to our own desires, aversions and indifferences.  Freedom to experience the joy inherent in the present moment without plastering it over with our thoughts and prejudices.  Just the pure freedom to love one another each and every precious moment of the exceedingly brief time we get to spend on this wonderful planet.
 
The past is not the present; it's just memories.  The future is only ideas of what might happen.  The present is the only time that we get to actually fully experience life on earth.  And the only present is this very moment that is happening now.  So I guess the point is, if there is only this one precious present moment, why spend it having an overheated discussion about Ebay?
 
It is certainly of value to share the experiences we've had on Ebay with each other.  And it's also of value to share our conclusions about what we may think are reasonable courses of action to take regarding Ebay.  We can offer our experiences and conclusions and the readers can then use this information in making future decisions.  We can share information with each other in a civil manner.  And we can learn from each other.  It seems to me that people are more likely to consider new ideas when they are presented respectfully.  It seems to me that when discussions get overheated, that participants tend to get defensive.  And it seems to be that someone who is defensive is not as likely to consider new ideas.  I tend to think that treating each other with respect increases the flow of ideas and information.
 
I suppose that's why I jump in from time to time and try to cool down threads that I, or others, think are getting overheated.  This is a great group of people and a great place to share knowledge and stories, and to ask questions and learn new things.  And as moderator, I try to do things that I think will help continue to make it a great place for all of us.

the_8_string_king

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« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2007, 09:42:06 PM »
Thanks for your thoughts, Dave.
 
A few brief responses:
 
First -please don't take this disrespectfully, as it is NOT intended as such- I must say your second paragraph is, in it's entirety, a package deal that appears to implicitly be a response to what you quoted me saying in your first sentence... but it really doesn't appear relevent to what I said.
 
Specifically, treating others with 'selfless compassion' is MOST DEFINETLY NOT living in fear; but I neither said nor implied that it does... and that statement and the rest of the paragraph simply have no bearing on what I said.
 
Some of the notions of the package and their sentiments, I agree with.  Much of it.  But it's a package, and it doesn't address what I said in any way.  I'm not saying this to insult you, Dave; I like and respect you.  I'm just saying it.  And it's no big deal.
 
The next thing I want to respond to is this quote/question: if there is only this one precious present moment, why spend it having an overheated discussion about Ebay?
 
Point 1: I see no basis whatsover for asserting this is an overheated discussion.  On what grounds is this assertion made?  I hold that it is NOT overheated.  But one can certainly argue that overheated is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Point 2.  To answer the question posed: howz about, because one feels it's important.
 
I sincerely feel what I said was important, and that's why I took the time to share my thoughts with everyone.  But it is certainly the case that how important my thoughts/statements are to each/every individual reading them can only be determined by each/every individual -for them.
 
We can share information with each other in a civil manner. And we can learn from each other. It seems to me that people are more likely to consider new ideas when they are presented respectfully. It seems to me that when discussions get overheated, that participants tend to get defensive. And it seems to be that someone who is defensive is not as likely to consider new ideas. I tend to think that treating each other with respect increases the flow of ideas and information.
 
Couldn't agree with you more, sir.
 
I suppose that's why I jump in from time to time and try to cool down threads that I, or others, think are getting overheated. This is a great group of people and a great place to share knowledge and stories, and to ask questions and learn new things. And as moderator, I try to do things that I think will help continue to make it a great place for all of us.
 
I appreciate your efforts, sir.  I think you do a great job, and on more than one occaission, your well-reasoned, carefully-chosen words have caused me to think, and have offered value to me.
 
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, Dave.
 
Take care, Mark

the_8_string_king

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« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2007, 09:45:57 PM »
P.S. I will NOT post any further on this subject.

bsee

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« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2007, 10:21:36 PM »
Dave, when someone tries to raise awareness about what they perceive as the shady behavior of a seller on eBay, it's normally no big deal.  It happens here on a pretty regular basis.  In this case, though, the seller in question happened to be a new member here.  I don't see how such a situation isn't going to result in ruffled feathers.  I can't see that it's in anyone's best interest to muzzle such comments completely, so I would have to believe that this is the type of conflict that has to be allowed to occur on occasion.  As long as things remain civil there should be no cause for alarm.  This relates to the  comment Mark made above regarding the posting guidelines.  Avoiding offensive language at all times is a wise idea, but it is critical when also discussing a sensitive or important topic.  
 
I tried to describe a legitimate reason for pulling eBay listings to make sales on occasion to suggest that it was not automatically grounds for suspicion.  I have to say that I was surprised by how aggressively people justified their right to abuse/misuse eBay's services.  I'm sure there are people who would make similar arguments for shoplifting at whichever national chain store has pissed them off, but would never cheat anybody in a private transaction.  I guess there's no universally accepted guide to morality.
 
I don't trust eBay/PayPal's buyer protection either, Mark, and I use my credit card as a funding source almost universally for purchases as a result.  I know my credit card company will back me up and eBay/PayPal may be the one to get screwed if they don't get the funds back from an unscrupulous seller.  For those who understand how the system works, this is a perfectly reasonable way to get a little more protection.  That said, I think it's a pretty long stretch to advance to stiffing them for commissions as a means of protest.  Sounds like nothing more than an attempt to justify squeezing out a couple percent more profit to me.

adriaan

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« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2007, 03:48:02 AM »
Mark,
 
You can't deny that this discussion was getting overheated. You've been around here for a good couple of aeons, so you should know what goes where.
 
The general rules of conduct were not designed to stifle your freedom of expression, but to provide a platform where anyone can feel at ease to participate in pretty much any discussion.
 
Dave's very polite appeal to the self-regulating capabilities of our members sometimes falls on deaf ears. Well, don't shoot the messenger.

georgie_boy

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« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2007, 06:03:05 AM »
Well -yet again ,I have to agree with Adriaan and especially Moder Dave
C'mon gentlemen-----------we are all members of a unique club.---------------Let's act like it!!
 
Well done Dave H for keeping this human!!
You're a star to us all!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
G