What's the better bass if Alembic was not around?

[lbpesq]

Hal:
 
What's this, The War On Drugs Vists Alembicland?  Are you including ALL drugs, or is this your War on Some Drugs, like our govt's?  Caffeine, Alcohol, Tobacco, and a host of others that are openly advertised and make pharmaceutical companies rich are okey dokey, but use others and you're put in a cage.  
 
Much of the music many of us enjoy which brought us to Alembic in the first place was influenced by drugs, and IMHO, in a very positive way.  The original Alembic players, like The Dead, the Airplane, and the whole San Francisco sound, were heavily influenced by altered consciousness.  And what about The Beatles, Louie Armstrong and American Jazz?  
 
Hey, drugs aren't evil or magical.  They are like everything else, a tool that can be a postive or a negative, that can be used or abused.  Painting them out to be an automatic trip to Bizarro World is far too simplistic.
 
Bill, tgo
 
(What's that I hear ... a can opener cutting through the top of a metallic vessel of worms perhaps?)

[speicky]

Bill, these error messages occur every once in a while... i think Moder Dave has set up the system this way to gather dues paying members more quickly ;-)

[hendixclarke]

When a musican plays good music, I am not wondering in my mind:  
 
what drugs s/he on to help them sound so great?  
 
or,
 
We need to pay homage and be thankful for drugs for there would had never been a greater company of musical geniuses without them playing while being stoned.
 
Are you kidding me???  
 
Anyway, we were talking about Jaco in context to drug abuse, and not the war on drugs...
 
Look, if you need drugs to play great music, then that's you and with all respect.  
 
However, as for me, I just need a guitar, and I'm cool. You can do what makes you happy bro. It's your life, and I have no rights to judge you and what you do. DO YOUR THANG (As we'd said back in the day...)

[lbpesq]

Hal:
 
Actually, no one was talking about drugs on this thread until you brought it up out of left field.  The Jaco references were part of a discussion about JayDee and Fender basses.
 
Secondly, nothing in my post suggested that I believed drugs were mandatory, or that we should worship drugs.
 
And, of course, you NEVER drink coffee, soda, or a  beer when you play, right?
 
Bill, tgo
 
(Message edited by lbpesq on November 24, 2007)

[hendixclarke]

You're putting words in my mouth....
 
I never said (you said) drugs was mandatory...
I never said (you said) worship drugs...
 
I don't need to say anything about what you said, one can, just simply read you message, and make up their own mind as to what you believe.  
 
If you bring up Jaco (Hendrix even), you can reference Fender guitars, basses, JayDee, and Alembics too. One could even discuss Jaco's death and the causes. If you bring in the causes, then drugs come into the discussion.  
 
These posts are conversations and coffee table discussions. One topic, can and usually does, lead to another or other discussions.  
 
If you want to flow into another discussion, it's cool, do so; but don't put words in my mouth, because it is not necessary to make your point.
 
I don't hide behind this keyboard. The things, I write, are the things I would say to you, or any respectable human being. We all suffered losses of loved ones due to drugs, and, I have never grieved over the loss of someone dying from a cup of coffee or a can of soda. So, don't sell me this crap man, because you are only playing yourself. (Now, frame this statement...)
 
The facts of the matter, people were always using drugs and will always use drugs and no government law or elected official could ever change this. Nothing can control you, but you. Also, I don't need coffee to play music, nor a can of soda. I just need a good guitar, for the rest is over kill.

[lbpesq]

Hal:
 
Your words (allegely paraphrasing my post):
 
We need to pay homage and be thankful for drugs for there would had never been a greater company of musical geniuses without them playing while being stoned.
 
 
You're right, you didn't say worship. you said pay homage .  I sincerely apoligize for this egregious error on my part.
 
As for Jaco, I agree it is true that a discussion of his life could certainly reasonably include drugs.  But such was not the case anywhere on this thread until you brought it up.  You then flamed me, stating, (again in your own words) we were talking about Jaco in context to drug abuse.  Actually we weren't.  Go through this thread - not one reference to drugs, regarding Jaco or otherwise, until your unsolicited anti-drug diatribe.
 
As for coffee and soda, many people die each year from the effects of stiumulants and sugar.  There have been serious health concerns raised about the parade of fake sugars they have put in diet sodas over the years.  Heck, 1100-1500 people die from aspirin poisoning every year in the U.S.  In the recorded history of mankind, not a single person has ever died from an overdose of cannabis.  
 
The question wasn't whether you needed coffee, soda or alcohol, when you played, but, rather, whether you ever indulged in such things.  If you have, you have used drugs.  And just as you don't need  stimulants, sugar, or alcohol to play, most musicians I know who enjoy the occasional toke while playing don't need it to play either.
 
Bill, tgo

[white_cloud]

Im no expert by any means, but I guess the problem with Jaco was that prior to taking drugs he had deep rooted emotional issues that he couldnt deal with. He couldnt communicate his feelings to others or ask for help until it was too late. He had a tendancy for wild mood swings and, in truth, probably had serious mental health issues for most of his life! Even his personal relationships with his wife/subsequent partners were extremely volatile. He was worshipped by people, fans and hangers on who couldnt say no to him and he felt constantly under pressure to live up to the crazy personna that he had created for himself by acting in an outrageous way. He was an wild attention seeker (as many top performers are!!) for whom the boudrays became dangerously unclear.
 
Now...
 
Add HEAVY drug AND alcohol abuse to the above mix and WHAM! Meltdown
 
There is an old saying about anything taken in moderation being okay, but Jaco couldnt do moderation. It just wasnt in him! I know many hard drinkers, one or two who have become alcoholics, but the rest dont cross the line despite often drinking just as much. What is it inside all of us that determines the limit that we have to excede to become an addict?
 
I think abuse of any substance is ultimately destrucive eventually. Be it alcohol, drugs, food, cigarettes...you name it! But thats just my opinion!
 
One thing I know for sure is this;
 
  Jaco shouldnt have done drugs

[hendixclarke]

Sugars are the building block of life. You can't live without sugars period. Even knowing this, I am still very concerned about adding too much sugar in my diet.  
 
I totally agree with you about Jaco and anyone who becomes controlled behind controlled substances and on top of this, he had mental problems too? That was two trains pointed in eachother's direction heading to collide...
 
Now as far as a Mary-j's, I have no focus here, no more of me trying to figure out whether or not a Platypus is a Duck or a Beaver mix and even the benefits. In otherwords, I am confused even why its even considered illicit with hard liquors having a huge green light. It's crazy.

[pace]

Adriaan,
 
The signal to noise ratio will always remain the same in all preamp and buffer circuits?  18v vs. 9v vs. passive? That's news to me.

[oujeebass]

The main pressure on Jaco wasn't alcohol or drugs, or even his mental health. These were all manifestations of his realization that the music world ,as he saw it, was changing for the worse. The late 70's/early 80's was a case of it was the best of times it, was the worst of times. I don't know if it truely has gotten any better, being that it has been categorized to the inth degree. We are also fortunate that all these great artists have set the standards for what we call classic. Alembics were originally designed in a effort to overcome the short comings of amplification/sound systems of the day. That all being said, there is no overcoming the need for talent no matter how much your bass costs. I remember being offered $300 in 1985 for a Les Paul Deluxe that I paid $150 for. I saw that same guitar going for $2800 recently. That all being driven by the fact the whole scene has become a country club of sorts. Hey Bob,check out my Big Bertha in platinum. So If you see me running through the park naked with a bass of high value, just direct me to the nearest country club.

[hendixclarke]

Man, that was deep.
 
In other words, Jaco foresaw hip-hop, rap, grunge, and boys_pop groups as the beginning, to the end of good music.
 
Jaco was his own worse friend. Being famous has its perks and drawbacks. But, this is with everything. Anything you see value, has the opposite devastation.
 
For example:
 
You purchase a guitar at a yard sale for $50 bucks. Your perceived value was about $75 (that would be your limit value to buy)?
 
Anyway, you?re happy with the thing for years, and you jam with your friends and you?re enjoying the thing and all. Then someone knocks it over and it breaks.  You?re cool about it because you only paid $50 bucks. But, then you find out years later, the damn thing was worth a few thousands of dollars? How do you feel now?
 
You see where I am getting at?
 
Most would be pretty pissed-off, and few would be laughing about it. It all comes down to your experiences. Believe me, I been the guy who would had been pissed-off ?royally?. However, the older I get, the more I just leaned, not to even care because value is completely subjective. I see my neighbor (an elder gentleman in is 80?s) driving this old Plymouth. ?Just as happy as he could be?? In other words,
 
There are no other words? just live and grow wise.

[oujeebass]

In other words, Jaco foresaw hip-hop, rap, grunge, and boys_pop groups as the beginning, to the end of good music.
 
No, he saw that the crowds just really didnt care. Music was back to being superfical and that was what many of his generation fought to over come. Hendrix saw this too. The antics to get the audience attention was a double edged sword. The music all proved the test of time ,but the way they got it to us took its toll. Alembic basses are the best at making sure that if you own one, your not just clowning around,because you will look really silly.

[hendixclarke]

Hendrix was tired of his money getting riped off and the fans wanting him to act like damn fool. He was getting to the age in his live, where he was leaving antics and effects unless it was meaningful to the music. Machine gun was that oil painting example of when to almost kill a guitar with emotion but show mercy for another show. Fans were pissed off because they were hoping to see him destroy his guitar ALL THE TIME.  
 
I said this once before, but I will say it again...
 
When starting a career in the performing arts, it is very important that you constantly recreate your image. If you stay doing one thing too long, you become defined as that guy that does this or that...
 
This was hell for Jaco and Hendrix. They wanted so badly to do other things, but their managers and fans said in their heads... they would fail if they did something else. But this was all in their head. Sure, they would have experiences losses in the transformation, but they would have loss a greater number of fans if they didn't change because people would have out grown their music (eventually) anyway.  
 
Yeah, it was a vicious cycle for them to deal with, and it is now.  
 
Hey, success is the road getting there, and not at the point in being there? In other words, don?t look at life as ?one demented? goal to achieve instead; look at each goal as a minor milestones toward self awareness and try to deal with the crap along the way...  
 
I believe Hendrix was head into that direction, and his music was getting even better, but people wanted that wild-drug-anthem ?Purple Haze?.
 
Sammy Davis Jr. was known an loved for all his beautiful melodies and songs of the 50's, 60's and 70's but most people remembers him for: ?The Candy Man?. Sammy said he hated that song more than all his songs, and yet (like from a Twilight Zone episode) people always wants him to sing it. It had to be, one of his worse nightmares on stage and off.
 
It also reminds me of the story of the mythological story King Kong. He was loved and worshiped by his people. He shown great strength enough where no animal in his domain, could dominate him. He was proud and at peace with his knowledge of his-self.  
 
However, when taken out of his element, he becomes manipulate and confused with drugs toward  eventually becoming a clown. Living with such humiliation from were you were, to where you are now... you could loses your mind, for everything there were.
 
Merry Christmas, HO HO HO.

[lbpesq]

Hal:
 
Now you blame drugs for King Kong's problems too?  Isn't that more than a bit absurd.  Most people believe it was the airplanes that got the Big Monkey  (I believe there is even film of this), but Carl Denim always contended that it wasn't the planes, it was beauty that killed the beast.  Hey, do you blame Hurricane Katrina on drugs too?  Global warming?  The war in Iraq?  World hunger?  Disease?  Pestilence?  The Rockies losing the World Series?  Is it all the fault of DRUGS!!!!!!???
 
Bill, tgo
 
(Message edited by lbpesq on November 25, 2007)

[hendixclarke]

Now you blame King Kong on drugs too?
 
No, How can I blame King Kong? He was captured with drugs... and it was never his will to leave his home in the first place.  
 
Didn't you know that?
 
 
Most people believe it was the airplanes that got the Big Monkey (I believe there is even film of this), but Carl Denim always contended that it wasn't the planes, it was beauty that killed the beast.
 
King Kong died the day he was druged, and taken from his home. The chains; woman; the airplanes; the bullets; and the fall was only stages toward the paths of a humiliating death.
 
Hey, do you blame Hurricane Katrina on drugs too? Global warming? The war in Iraq? World hunger? Disease? Pestilence? The Rockies losing the World Series? Is it all the fault of DRUGS!!!!!!???  
 
Now you sound obnoxious.
 
So, Im going to hold my comments. No offense, but I feel a little funny replying back to you. You remind me of the guy who seeks comic relief after sounding off in a foolish way. I was serious, in my message, your trying to steer issues.  
 
You also think you're slick...  
 
You don't need to know my social political philosophies as it relates to our world. Just put you hands on you mouth when you cough, and that would be enough (like the song goes) to understand my views.
 
In China, flies were a problem. A wise man said, Let everyone kill one or more flies per day...
The people organized and followed. By the end of the week, the fly problem was solved just like that...
 
In other words, if you have a spark of hope, then you can have a fire of a solution.
 
Merry Christmas (Happy Birthday Jesus, and I thank you!)