Author Topic: Graphite necks (Read 636 times)

jetbass79 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2005, 04:38:57 PM »

Too me it all means that with all the control over a process like instrument making, making necks from good old wood would be more practical and consistent than making them from graphite.

The answers to my question are very helpful as one point I was considering a Zon before I went the Alembic road, and I am not sure that I really want one now. And at least I can put that idea on hold since I spent all that money anyway...

And it makes perfect sense that an Alembic would have little tonal difference with graphite rods versus a passive Fender bass. There's much more going with an Alembic. I know I couldn't tell a difference either way becuase the electronics have such a large influence on the way the bass sounds.

rogertvr · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2005, 01:19:13 AM »

I've read with interest what's been written here regarding the hit and miss nature of working with graphite. I wonder how Status Graphite fare with the necks (and entire instruments) that they make from graphite? They've stuck with it for years now, so I can only assume that they get very little or nothing in the way of miss as opposed to hit. Miss costs too much money I would assume and is the sort of thing that finishes a business off for good.

elwoodblue · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2005, 04:06:30 AM »

Thanks David for the intimate view inside the process.I appreciate all the effort and artfullness in the science of handmade graphite necks even more,not to mention the specific Alembic histories.
The '78 I (sigh) had,...has a sound I crave to this day.Dark and Funky.
...of course some type of dense wood hippie sandwich I'm sure will satisfy my soul just fine.
kris

dela217 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2005, 09:09:40 AM »

I own one of the graphite necked Series II Alembics too. The neck on this one is awesome. Rock solid and it never moves. Tons of sustain, really a great bass. I would encourage anyone that can try one out to do so. I think the graphite option has it's place in instrument making. Maybe I just have a good one. In reading David's earlier posts, it now makes sense to me why the headstock on my Series II graphite bass is hollow. By the way, mine is an 81 with the pin like crystal pattern in it.

Michael

kungfusheriff · « **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2005, 09:48:52 AM »

You and me both, MD. Despite its' quirks I love mine with a passion.
elwood, did your bass have cocobolo facings and an omega cutout by any chance?

811952 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2005, 10:13:09 AM »

I drooled over a few short-scale graphite-necked Series basses at Vic Zinn's when I was shopping for my first Alembic in '81. They were all sweet! I have a long-scale ear though, so I didn't pursue any of them. I wanted to order a graphite neck on 811952, but couldn't afford the extra $$$ (dealer cost on 811952 was something in the neighborhood of $3600.00 back then with the 5-piece wood neck). Vic also had several Basstars and other Modulus instruments in stock, and other than the tiny headless Modulus basses (which neck-dove big time), they were all very exceptional in both sound and playability. He also had the legendary Modulus Tom Petersen 18-string bass for a bit, and I very nearly bought that instead of the Alembic purely for cool factor (and knowing I could get an Alembic later). Now THAT was an incredible sounding instrument! (note my deliberate hesitation to call it a bass) He was only asking something like $3k with flight case for it, and seemed willing to deal to get rid of the behemoth. I love my Alembic, but I sure wish I'd bought the 18-string when I had the chance..
John the reminiscent one

bigredbass · « **Reply #21 on:** April 03, 2005, 11:13:05 AM »

I remember that 18-string monster . . scared people half to death when it was first shown at NAMM in the early 80s.

Graphite is wonderful from the standpoint in that the Steinbergers and Modulus guitars I've played were staggeringly even from nut to last fret. To me, using graphite to beat neck relief problems is overkill, more than cancelled out by refret problems. Neck shape is always hit or miss regardless of material: It's either right for you or it's not. I just like wood better simply for emotional reasons, which confounds the logical side of my brain, but then life is like that, isn't it?

Steinberger is reviving his guitars/basses through Gibson, who is selling them EXCLUSIVELY through Musicians Friend (Strange situation: Did Ned not want them sold through Gibson's MusicYo cheapo channel? Not enough dealer interest, as if Gibson could screw them over one more time with yet another franchise/dealer agreement? And why would he get back in bed with Gibson again, anyway?). They're all maple headless instruments with the truss rod emcased in a graphite channel routed into the maple neck. He sees them (the new instruments are called SYNAPSE)as an evolution of the original headless instruments from the 80s.
Seems like a compromise between graphite sonics and manufacturing reality, a very understandable balance, considering everything spoken of in the preceding posts.

J o e y

811952 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 04, 2005, 07:46:30 AM »

Funny thing, my brother plays upright in a couple of jazz trios and a few big bands. He loves the tone of an acoustic bass. His all-time favorite rock bass, though, is the Steinberger L2A because it has *the* tone (deep bass, punchy mids and very even highs across the neck) for rock. Talk about going from one extreme to the other... When he plays electric jazz gigs, he uses a maple/koa Carvin fretless for the woody sound it gets when plucked over the end of the fingerboard.

The Steinberger differs greatly in construction from the Modulus instruments, in that the Steinberger neck isn't hollow and *appears* to simply have been poured into a mold. The body is only marginally hollow and is accessed by removing the top with four hex screws. The Steinberger is deceptively heavy for it's size, too, whereas the similarly-sized Modulus headless basses were entirely too light to be very playable, IMHO. I wonder if there are any of those still floating around? Jack Casady played one in a Hot Tuna (I think) video from the early/mid 1980's...

john

kungfusheriff · « **Reply #23 on:** April 04, 2005, 10:02:09 PM »

The Steinberger differs greatly in construction from the Modulus instruments, in that the Steinberger neck isn't hollow and *appears* to simply have been poured into a mold.
You nailed it. Prior to getting my Series I had one similar to your friend's bass, the good ones with the top plate, and concur with your points including the overall quality of build and sound. It felt more solid and dense than the Mods I've played, like my Series feels.
I've actually held one of those Mods, the banana-shaped model with PJ pickups, right? The bass was at Let's Jam Music in upstate NY, and was priced so high it's probably still there.

811952 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2005, 07:43:33 AM »

Banana shaped - yeah, that's an apt description. And they hang like both strap pins are on the same end. Neck dive city...
I've built a couple of fairly nice basses (out of maple/rosewood/walnut) over the years, and one day would like to pour a bass (epoxy and graphite cloth into a female mold) and see how well that works at the hobbyist level. I imagine the hardest part would be carving the dummy from which the mold gets created, followed in difficulty by planing the joint between the neck and fingerboard. If I ever get around to it, I'll post pictures...
John

terryc · « **Reply #25 on:** April 06, 2005, 07:40:10 AM »

Big discussions on this subject??? In retrospect I don't suppose James Jamerson or Bernard Edwards cared that much about the necks especially since they both hardly changed the strings on there basses from one year to the next(allegedly!!)

811952 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2005, 08:13:10 AM »

Certainly, but wouldn't you have loved to hear Jamerson pullin' out all the stops with a ripping bass sound? He and few others created the need and/or demand for better bass technology, even if only by trying to make the electric sound (in many ways) more like an acoustic bass. If you listen to a good acoustic bass, setup well and played by a good player, you'll realize that Fender basses with flatwound strings can never even come close to that tone. Graphite necks give the electric bass an evenness that acoustic basses get from having massive necks and massive ebony fingerboards. And don't get fooled into thinking that purist acoustic players aren't all about using technology to get rid of even the most minute dead spots and wolf tones..

Having typed all that, a friend of mine years ago in Nashville (Randy Guidry) had the bass used to record Superfly, and it had the original strings. I only got to play it a little, but there definitely was something cool and funky about it which certainly influenced my approach to the music.

John

terryc · « **Reply #27 on:** April 07, 2005, 05:07:57 AM »

Always something magical about an instrument that is has been used on memorable songs..maybe it is just us sad basses players that imagine it as other would think we a mad(maybe we all are!)
Superfly...one helluva funky tune..used recently by Ms Aguilara I believe!

bigredbass · « **Reply #28 on:** April 08, 2005, 10:30:20 PM »

God Rest Bernard Edwards (and the more recently departed Tony Thompson). I've recently been practicing I'm Coming Out, the Diana Ross track where she was backed by Chic, just because that Rhythm section of Edwards/Thompson along with Nile Rogers' rhythm guitar is just so delicious. CHIC is certainly one reason NOT to just knee-jerk disco as all crap.

Speaking of . . . John Taylor has Bernard's MusicMan on tour with DuranDuran this year, so it really is another case of playing an axe that did terrific work for its original owner. John is a HUGE Bernard Edwards fan, so it is in very good hands, and good of him to bring renewed interest to this fabulous bassist, gone home to God.

J o e y

David Houck · « **Reply #29 on:** April 09, 2005, 06:45:20 AM »

Joey, nice point. As much as I disliked disco back in the day, there was some of it that I appreciated because of the musicianship. Similarly, when DuranDuran first became popular I liked their stuff; I liked the bass work and their innovative approach.