Author Topic: Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model  (Read 704 times)

ajdover

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2005, 07:55:27 AM »
One last post on this, then like Rory, I'm out ...
 
Alan, eBay isn't a supposedly respectable dealer. If the dealer who is supposed to be your information conduit tells you it's an SC, then what are you supposed to do? Call another dealer? Call Santa Rosa? The dealer is Santa Rosa's local presence and shouldn't by slipping things by people.  
 
Bob, you're right, Ebay is not the most reputable dealer.  One is at the mercy of someone on the other end selling something that is difficult to verify independently as to authenticity, condition, etc.  I knew this when buying the RD, and took a calculated risk I thought was acceptable.  It turned out it wasn't, and now I have an instrument that required work to make it playable (which it now is, and it's awesome.  It's Gibson's Alembic, if there is such a thing!).  
 
The dealer in question here posts photos of their instruments online.  Most of the ones they have on their site as SCs have clear pics of the electronics (knobs, switches, etc.).  If I were going for a SC deluxe, and saw Europa switches on it, I'd ask the question.  How would I know to ask?  By going to the Alembic site, playing other Alembics if possible and comparing, etc.  
 
I agree the dealership in question shouldn't be slipping things by folks, but if my experience with them is any gauge, it's not something they do (or did) deliberately or regularly.  Could be a simple oversight on their part.  In the end, if the instrument pleases the customer, that's all that really matters.  If it doesn't for any number of reasons, then there is a problem.  If the dealer hopes to earn repeat business (and hence stay in business) it will work with the customer to resolve the source of the problem or dissatisfaction with the product.  If it doesn't, it probably won't be in business much longer as word of their customer service gets out.  In the case of Alembics, word spreads pretty fast from what I've noticed here in the Club.  I've not heard too many folks say good things about Ed Roman, for example, but have heard many speak platitudes about Bass Central, Superbass.net, and Bass Northwest.  I also know that many here have used those businesses for Alembic purchases, and were quite happy with them.  So these guys must be doing something right.
 
We're not talking about commodity items, a used Alembic in a generic shop, or a private deal here. The Alembic dealer should go beyond the norm to ensure that a buyer is satisfied. It should be the equivalent of shopping for Mercedes or BMW instead of a Ford. When you're paying $3K+ for a basswhen the typical instrument sells for under $1K, you deserve personalized service at a higher standard.
 
Speaking only for myself, I don't care whether it's a Ford Focus or a Ferrari Enzo.  If I'm spending money numbering in the thousands, I ask questions, verify, etc., and expect that the dealer respect the fact I'm plunking down what is, for me, a lot of money.  Once you hand over that check, save warranties, guarantees in writing, etc., you are stuck with the item.  Sure, there are some legal recourses, but for the most part you own it.  When I bought my Dodge truck two years ago, before I finalized any paperwork I went over it with a fine toothed comb.  And I expect the same attention to detail and personalized service from a Dodge dealer as I would from BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc.  As I see it, I'm putting down a large chunk of change (in my case $20K+).  The dealer knows this, and if they want my business should remember that. If they don't, I go somewhere else.  
 
In the case of the SC Essence, yes, they should provide the information up front.  They should treat the potential customer well.  But no more or less than they do for any of their other instruments, IMHO, if they are to be consistent across the board in terms of sales experience, truth in advertising, service after the sale, etc.  
 
The way I see it, if you buy a Fender, and the experience was good, you will be more likely to go back to that dealer and purchase another product or more expensive product.  If the experience was bad, well, you'll most likely go elsewhere, regardless of how much you paid in the first place.  In this case, the buyer may indeed go elsewhere for their next bass purchase based on all of this, and that is their choice.
 
And I agree with Dave that it's never a good thing for either the business or the customer if the business uses an unethical practice to sell goods.  What I was trying to say is that unfortunately this occurs too often, not only with musical instruments, but with lots of other goods and commodities.  Eventually, word spreads and that purveyor suddenly finds a drop off in business.  Which, of course, for consumers is a good thing.  Many thanks to Dave for clarifying this! :-)
 
Finally, For Rory ..
 
Glad I could create a little excitement for you.  Wait a minute, you need no excitement ... you have a Series!
 
And I'm spent ...
 
Alan

petiteblonde

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2005, 08:31:20 AM »
Alan, have you spoken to the store yet about feeling misled about the bass?  Is there anything at this point that they can do to rectify the situation?  It may be fair to allow them to make any amends to you.  Even club members are somewhat confused about what determines the actual model, regardless of the serial number letter/s.  In any case, they have some splainin to do.

dadabass2001

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2005, 10:22:34 AM »
Perry was the purchaser in question, not Alan. If Perry is happy with the deal, then no harm done.
my 2?.
Mike
"The Secret of Life is enjoying the passage of Time"
 - James Taylor

effclef

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2005, 10:44:50 AM »
For what it's worth, Bass Northwest labels several basses here:
 
http://www.bassnw.com/Special%20Order%20Basses/alembic.htm
 
as Stanley Clarke models whereas the ones which have Signature electronics are called Stanley Clarke _Signature_ basses...
 
And if Bass Central is the FL dealer in question, their page shows the Stanley Basses:
 
http://www.basscentral.com/alembicbass/stanley.shtml
 
...those which aren't Signature electronics are shown as Custom. I have no idea if that just happened recently or not. I thought the Europa style models in the Stanley shape were lumped in as Stanleys before.
 
From the many factory-to-customer posts where people praise Bass Central as being the place to have a good custom-order experience, I am surprised if they really had malice aforethought here in Perry's deal.  
 
Bottom line, was Perry satisfied and was the price fair for what he got?
 
Only he can decide!
 
EffClef

haddimudd

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2005, 02:53:43 PM »
In respect to the origin of this thread, was the bass advertized as a Stanley Clarke bass or a Stanley Clarke SIGNATURE bass?
 
Calling it a Signature bass would definitely be a false and misleading statement because it would indicate a type of electronics which the bass does not carry.
 
If it was just advertised as a Stanley Clarke model, not a Signature model, then I would think it is fair to say that in general terms the small body is indeed associated with the image of Stanley Clarke, and thus that's all this naming was intended to refer to.
 
Of course it would be more accurate to call it whatever the serial number categorizes it to but I realized more than once that shop owners are a lot less educated in the multitude of subtleties of the Alembic world than our community of dedicated users.  
 
So in this particular case I would not think the seller did anything wrong intentionally, unless of course he used the term Signature and even more so if he priced the bass like a signature bass instead of the value of an Essence bass.
 
If you paid the price of an Essence bass and what you got is an Essence bass that looks like the ones Stanley Clarke uses I think you are doing fine, if not then you might want to talk to the seller about it.

yggdrasil

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2005, 05:19:38 PM »
They call them: ?Stanley Clarke? Custom  
 
The real ones they call Stanley Clarke Signature  
 
I have one of the Essence Stanley Customs, but with a very customized neck & pup placement.
 
Here's a pic page:
 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/videoimage/SC.htm
 
Frank
 
Here's a pic:
 
 



haddimudd

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2005, 11:31:29 PM »
Well, from the above picture I would say it is pretty obvious it is not a Stanley Clarke Signature, not to mention a Series bass, by looking at only three instead of at least four knobs.
 
Apart from that it is a true beauty and if the seller's discription was anywhere near the discription in the above link there wouldn't be any questions left unanswered.  
 
Exept of course the magical question why the heck these basses carry an Essence serial number while there aren't even any Essence electronics nor body features left. Funny!
 
Sweet bass, BTW!

yggdrasil

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2005, 10:54:15 AM »
Just for fun, I went to the quote generator and punched in the parameters of my Stanley Essence:
 
Starting as an Essence, it came out to list $7550.
Starting as a SC Sig, it came out to list $7400.
 
I can only guess that the dealer was taking advantage of some time-limited special on Essence + certain options.
 
Otherwise it makes no sense.
 
Frank in Toronto

alanbass1

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2005, 11:42:48 PM »
So, in effect the serial number determines the official model designation; not shape, electronics, fittings, construction or whatever. Alembic must be unique in this respect, although I'm not sure that I feel this is a good policy.  All it goes to show is that when buying instruments, either make sure you play them first, or custom order to your exact specification; then you will know exactly what you are buying regardless of what the serial number says.

haddimudd

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2005, 11:54:22 PM »
I would think ideally the serial number (on a non-custom instrument) is meant to reflect the type of electronics and/or the neck construction (through vs. set neck). In my believe the Essence/Europa/Clarke basses above started out as Essence basses and were so heavily customized that down the line nobody realized that no Essence features had been left. This probably shouldn't be the rule and I wouldn't be surprised if Alembic staff would confirm that this is a case that slipped through and didn't go conform with regular serial numbering conventions.

phys49

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2005, 01:37:36 PM »
Since there have not been any posts lately, I would like to wrap up this thread.
I returned the bass to Bass Central. They called it a Stanley Clarke Custom model. It is a very beautiful bass but I needed a smaller nut width to play it.
They are shipping it back to Alembic to have the neck shaved from 1.75 to 1.5 since there are others who have small hands like me.
My lack of knowledge about Alembic policies and marketing strategies contributed to a less than enjoyable experience. In the end, Bass Central did resolve this in a satisfactory manner.
I appreciate the comments, information and education I have recieved here. I am still looking for a short scale Alembic with a 1.5 nut.

alanbass1

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Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2005, 02:38:05 PM »
It's good to see that Bass Central looked after you.  I stand by all I have said in this thread in as much that a model name should at least have characteristics that is commonly associated with it.  Otherwise things like this will continue to happen. Enough said.