Essence sold as Stanley Clarke model

[phys49]

In response to glocke's post, the serial number is an Essence serial number(with a K) but the body shape was upgraded to a small standard shape si it is not shaped like a traditional Essence. Other upgrades have made this a very nice bass which looks and sounds like an SC.

[alanbass1]

I understand Bob's point regarding my previous comment.  But now I'm really confused.  If the bass has a Stanley Clarke body shape, and other upgrades from what would be an Essence, how is this an Essence?  Is it not the fact that you have a Stanley Clark 'type' bass with Essence electronics.  I don't think serial numbers should confuse the issue, or have I missed something here?

[keith_h]

I think this all boils down to what average people think of when they see an Alembic bass. When you say SC they think of the short scale small body. There is the other thread discussing a similar issue with MK models. Other than set neck or neck through, body style does not determine the model of an Alembic bass as much as the electronics installed. The Signature line has a standard set of electronics just as the Series instruments have. After all doesn't Stanley actually play a small body with Series electronics (which is different that the basic Signature model)?
 
In any event I would expect the bass to have a very good sound and be fun to play.
 
Keith

[David Houck]

Keith; just for fun, I would like to offer some alternative thoughts to your post.
 
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that average people don't know the difference between a bass and a guitar .
 
The average bass player probably doesn't know what an Alembic is.
 
The average bass player may have heard of Stanley Clarke but I doubt that the average player knows that he plays an Alembic.  I also doubt that the average bass player can conjure up an image of Stanley's bass; and I really doubt the average player know that it's a 30.75 short scale.
 
I'm thinking there is a relatively small subset of people calling themselves bassplayers that know Stanley plays an Alembic.  Of that group, there is a smaller subset that knows that there is a Stanley Clarke model Alembic.  Of that group there is probably a smaller subset that knows that the electronics on a stock Stanley Clarke model Alembic are different that those on the basses Stanley plays.  Then there is the group of people that knows you can custom order a Stanley Clarke model and change the electronics.  And there is the group that knows you can custom order another Alembic model and specify the small body that usually comes on the Stanley Clarke model.  And at this point I think we're essentially talking about the members of our group !!
 
Perry; welcome to the group and congrats on your purchase of a great bass!  If you like, and get a chance, please post some pictures to the showcase section.

[keith_h]

Dave, Perhaps I should have used a different term for average people and said something like bass players or musicians.:-) In any event in the circle of folks I have known, through the years, Alembic basses are not that obscure or unknown. Most of the folks are around my age, give or take 4-5 years, and were either fusion types or Dead Heads. One even played an Alembic bass (a Spoiler I think). So maybe it's an age thing (my kids keep telling me I'm getting old).:-) Most of them also live in areas that are a little more metropolitan than where I currently reside (i.e. Chicago, SF, LA, etc).  
Now their guitars on the other hand were a surprise to me when I first started looking for an Alembic last summer. Always new they made great basses but never even dawned on me that they made guitars.
 
But back to the point I was trying to here is the body style is not the driving factor for what model of instrument you have but is more driven by the electronics. And I still think when folks say Stanley's bass the short scale small body comes to mind even if they do not know what it is called. It is a unique shape as basses go after all.  
 
On a side note, where abouts is Candler in regards to Ashville? I have a daughter going to UNCA and my wife and I plan on retiring up in that area 4-5 years from now. We want to be relatively close to Ashville for the medical and amentities but prefer to live in  a small town or unicorporated area.
 
 

[David Houck]

Candler is a small town on the southwest edge of Asheville.  I actually live 15 minutes south of Candler, about 30 minutes from downtown Asheville, tucked away in a small cove.  Asheville is, in my opinion, a wonderful place.  So, where is Holly Springs?

[ajdover]

On whether people know what an Alembic is ...
 
I've taken my basses to various venues, open mikes, etc., and the vast majority of musicians I've encountered here (Fayetteville, NC) do not know what an Alembic is, nor have they heard of one.  Some of the bass players do, but that's about it.  I guess that's due to Alembic's low profile advertising-wise vis a vis Fender, Gibson, etc.
 
When I lived up in the DC area I encountered more musicians who knew what an Alembic was, but there weren't many.
 
As far as Stanley's bass goes, I guess one could classify it as an SC even though it doesn't have the electronics of a standard or deluxe SC.  I mean, I've got a Spyder, but it doesn't have Series II electronics, two master volumes, note inlays, like John Entwistle's had.  Does this mean it's not an Entwistle model?  I don't think so.  Few of us could afford an exact replica of a famous artist's instrument (unless, of course, they're playing Fenders or some other mass produced instrument).  I think what Alembic does is capture the essence, the spirit of that artist's Alembic of choice rather than an exact replica (which would be hideously expensive in the case of the Spyder - I've asked!) in order to place it in more hands.  For me, this is OK - I'd like to at least capture some of the magic that such an instrument provides.  With my Spyder, I think I do.
 
My two cents,
 
Alan

[rami]

What's there to even call that Bass an Essence?  An Essence is a 34 scale Bass with an Essence body and electronics - Master volume, Pan, and Tone.  
 
If the serial number on your Bass begins with SC, then what you have there IS a Stanley Clarke model with Europa/Rogue electronics (which by the way, are a significant step above Essence electronics) instead of the signature electronics.  
 
And truth be known, even Stanley Clarke doesn't play the Stanley Clarke model.  He plays a Series I with the small standard body.  That's the REAL Stanley Clarke Bass - despite whatever else you want to call it.
 
(Message edited by rami on April 17, 2005)

[pace]

Im not sure how the pricing stacks up side by side, but using the Essence as a starting point (the most affordable neck-thru, most affordable electronics w/ LP filter), and adding a couple of $100-$500 upgrades here or there, you might be able to come out ahead if you do it right.....  
 
The bass I'm having done right now will be classified as an Essence despite the different body shape, scale length, etc etc.....

[rklisme]

I think the original question has to do with is this a Stanley Clarke bass or not? The answer is no it isn't! If anyone of us wanted to build a custom bass starting with a platform of a Essence or any other model that is one thing but to walk into a music store and not have them tell you exactly what you are buying is very mis-leading. If I were to use the logic I am reading here I could go home with a Fernandez or some other copy and just because it had a small standard body it would be okay to call it a Alembic Stanley Clarke bass or for the Fender crowd how would you feel if you were told you were buying 60's pre-CBS Jazz bass and found out that is was a 2000 re-issue. Would it be okay because it was a Fender and it looked like a 60's pre-CBS Jazz Bass? I think not. If it is a Essencse with a small standard body and Europa electronics I need to be told that. I think a good sales person would at least explain the differences in what I am purchasing versus what I think I am purchasing. Maybe being a Alembic dealer it might even benefit me to explain the different options that were available. Stanley Clarke Signature basses versus Series I which is what Stanley really plays versus any other platform that Alembic offers. I know if it were me and I am laying out a couple grand or more then I sure as hell better be getting what I was told I was getting. Not something that if you look at it sideways when the moon is in the seventh hour just as a groundhog sticks his head out of the ground it could be called a Stanley Clarke bass on some planets! Perry originally asked,Is this accepted marketing of Alembic products? The answer is and should be no. What is the first thing any Alembic owner ask for when wanting to purchase a used Alembic? SERIAL NUMBER! Why is that? So you as a buyer can be as informed as you can about the purchase of a potential instrument. You don't want it to just look like a Series I when you make that purchase you want to know that it is one.  
 
Rory

[88persuader]

I wish Mica or someone from Alembic would explain the companys offical criteria for calling a model and particular model. Only THEY can tell us what makes a Essence or a Stanley Clark what it is. I once again for kicks used the quote generator to see if I'd save money buying a Stanley Clark standard with cheaper electronics and the answer is no. I love Alembics and am very proud to play them but I still think that's a little lame. What I DIDN'T do (and will) is use the quote generator to see how much it would cost to buy an Essence with a small scale neck and a small standard body. Then i'll add signature electronics. I wonder if the price will be the same as a Sc standard? We'll see. :-)

[88persuader]

Well if i did it correctly a Essence done as a Stanley Clark is actually more expensive.

[bsee]

True, but you may not want all of the options on the SC model.  Also, the monthly special can provide an advantage in starting with the Essence model, depending on what you're looking for.  Also, these basses were built and bought one or two price increases ago, so the relative prices of the models and options could have been different then.  Certainly, a pre-increase version is likely to be less than ordering a custom today.
 
As far as what the model is considered to be, the serial number says it.  I am told that if too many changes are made to an instrument, it gets the C designation instead of the original model.  
 
But none of that should matter.  You have an Alembic bass with a certain set of features.  The names used to create it are nice to make it easier to talk about, but should anyone pay more or less for identical instruments based upon the letter in the serial number?  They shouldn't in my book.  
 
Personally, I would value an Essence done up as an SC model with PH neck laminates and Europa electronics to be a few hundred dollars below an SC Standard model.  On the used market, it appears that Signature electronics hold value better than Europa does, but it's hard to say with so few Europa-equipped instruments changing hands.

[malthumb]

bsee wrote:
 
As far as what the model is considered to be, the serial number says it. I am told that if too many changes are made to an instrument, it gets the C designation instead of the original model.  
 
But none of that should matter. You have an Alembic bass with a certain set of features. The names used to create it are nice to make it easier to talk about, but should anyone pay more or less for identical instruments based upon the letter in the serial number? They shouldn't in my book.  
 
I think this summarizes it pretty well.  Bottom line is, when you have it in your hands and listen to it with your ears and twiddle with the controls that are on it, did you feel you got your money's worth?  If yes, buy it.  If not, well....
 
Where this gets dicey, though, is how do you describe it to the person who is buying it from you?  If I were to sell my 5 string, s/n 00MKC12421, I could very easily describe it as a Series II.  The content is easily equivalent to a pre-1997 Series II, but it doesn't carry the same number of body laminates as a post 1997 Series II (5 instead of 7).  Most people familiar with Alembic's s/n system or willing to take the time to look it up will recognize that it is a Mark King Deluxe (MK) with a lot of custom options (C).  At the time I ordered it, I could have ordered a Series II and had most of the options included in the base price, but it would have listed a couple grand higher and the only additional content I would have gotten would have been gold plated bridge and tailstock and the two additional body laminates.  Woulda been nice, but not necessary.
 
Peace,
 
James

[rami]

 
 
(Message edited by rami on April 17, 2005)