Author Topic: Phil's Osage Orange?? (Read 356 times)

jseitang · « **Reply #15 on:** August 10, 2005, 10:49:50 AM »

if you look at the starfire, starfires were originally 32 inch scale length. phil did in fact play medium scale basses untill, his switch to ken smith, and then finally to hi modulus basses (wait a minute guys i remember that phil played a bass that i think was made by doug irwin. it had the same shape as jerry's tiger, but it had p bass looking pick ups... anyone have info on this bass?)befor the ken smith i think he played on g&l for a bit.

(Message edited by jseitang on August 10, 2005)

jseitang · « **Reply #16 on:** August 10, 2005, 10:51:55 AM »

if you look at the starfire, starfires were originally 32 inch scale length. phil did in fact play medium scale basses untill, his switch to ken smith, and then finally to hi modulus basses (wait a minute guys i remember that phil played a bass that i think was made by doug irwin. it had the same shape as jerry's tiger, but it had p bass looking pick ups... anyone have info on this bass?)

blazer · « **Reply #17 on:** August 10, 2005, 11:04:09 AM »

The Guild company was founded by former Gibson and Epiphone employees, they made guitars the way they were used to, they gave the designs some tweeks to give them their own look but many of thier early electrics looked like Gibsons. The S100 was their SG, the Aristocrat was their Les Paul the Starfire bass was their version of the Gibson EB2/ Epiphone Rivoli.

The main difference between the EB 2 and the Starfire bass is that the Starfire doesn't have the Basscut switch which removed most of the low end when pressed. But since Starfire was a twin brother of the EB 2 I assume that both basses also share the 30 inch scale length. The picture shows both a sixties Gibson EB2 and a Guild starfire of similar Vintage.

bigideas · « **Reply #18 on:** August 10, 2005, 12:15:39 PM »

awhile ago i emailed mica about the orange osage bass; why was it the only one ever made with that wood? the answer was glue. it de-laminated because the wood didn't like the glue. glues have probably changed, but i assume no one has asked for it since.

not to nit pick, but aren't starfires 30.75 scale. isn't that where alembic's short scale measure comes from.

David Houck · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2005, 12:36:42 PM »

I just ran a quick web search and got lots of references to 30.5 for the Guild Starfire. Perhaps they made more than one scale length.

kungfusheriff · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2005, 12:49:37 PM »

No, Starfires were 30.75 scale--where Alembic got the idea for their own short-scale basses, I believe--and most of the ones I've seen (and the one I owned) did indeed have the bass-cut or baritone switch the bass in blazer's pic lacks.

jseitang · « **Reply #21 on:** August 10, 2005, 01:31:41 PM »

sorry i stand corrected.....

cosmic · « **Reply #22 on:** August 10, 2005, 01:38:17 PM »

so was phil's alembic osage orange a 32 inch scale bass? Anyone know? Any of the Alembic peeps remember?

(Message edited by cosmic on August 10, 2005)

bracheen · « **Reply #23 on:** August 11, 2005, 03:37:35 AM »

The main difference between the EB 2 and the Starfire bass is that the Starfire doesn't have the Basscut switch which removed most of the low end when pressed
Why would such a feature be on a bass? How did engaging it make the instrument sound?

Sam

blazer · « **Reply #24 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:34:58 AM »

The most striking use of that feature was by John Entwistle on Substitute he had used a two pickup version of the Gibson EB 2 during the recording of the song (according to several interviews he did) with his normal settings on the amps and with the bass-cut feature engaged during most of the song. When he does the solo he pushes the button releasing the low end resulting into a very powerful distorted sound. If you listen carefully you can hear the click when he pushes the button.

From April 1995 Bassist interview
?On Substitute I played a two pickup medum scale Gibson bass and I managed to find a decent set of Gibson wirewound strings that vibrated properly. The session was going well and I felt that we were ready for the master take, so when it got to the solo in the middle, I turned the bass up and there was nothing the engineer could do about it. They?d previously balanced everything and it was all going through the mixer at the same time.?

The thing was, given the EB2's short scale and the placing of the pickup the only sound you could get from that bass was a Low muddy thud. The basscut switch made it somewhat more versatile in use.

bracheen · « **Reply #25 on:** August 11, 2005, 06:57:45 AM »

Thanks, Blazer, I'll go back and listen to Substitute with that in mind.
See, I learned something today. It's a good day.

Sam

bassman10096 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 11, 2005, 01:00:35 PM »

The other, major difference between the EB-2 and the Starfires was the pickup itself. The older Starfires originally sported a single coil Hagstom-made Bisonic pu.

The Bisonics sound completely different from the Gibson mudbuckers. They are not humbuckers, but big single coils. They are far clearer and have a broader response range than the Gibsons ever had. Think about the muddy bassline in the Animals' We've Gotta Get out of this Place (EPI Rivoli or EB-2 - not sure which). To me, that's the most representative Gibson humbucker sound. The Starfires were much cleaner.

When Guild inroduced the Starfire II, a second bisonic was added. My understanding has always been that Phil's and Jack's Starfires were the II's. They definitely had the bisonic pu's.

Here's where the Alembic lore kicks in (as usual). Over time, Ron and Rick worked some magic to hotrod the bisonics with the addition of a second magnet, rewinding to lower impedance and ultimately addition of Ron's emitter-follower circuit (arguably the first on-board active bass preamp). The sound of this generation of Alembic mods is on Crown of Creation and Live Dead. Later, as Alembic's experiments with pickup winding progressed, the hotrodded Bisonics were obsoleted by Alembic's own pu's.

Guild finally stopped using the Bisonics on Starfires and M-85s in favor of their own humbuckers. Their sound suffered. Since then, all the Guild and DeArmond reissues of the Starfire have one kind of humbucker or another.

Bill

bigideas · « **Reply #27 on:** August 11, 2005, 02:27:49 PM »

and now Hammon Engineering is producing copies of the original Bi-Sonics. there is some pretty good background info there that came from Rick Turner.

bassman10096 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 11, 2005, 03:07:51 PM »

If you look at Fred's site, check the gallery for Phil playing a very interesting EBO with Bisonics. I have heard that is the bass played on Skullf**k and later stolen. Then go three rows below the lower picture of Phil's EB. The EBO with the macassar ebony pickguard was finished and modded by yours truly. It's an incredible player.

cosmic · « **Reply #29 on:** August 15, 2005, 09:26:31 AM »

no confirmation yet of the scale length of Phil's Alembic?