Heads Up - Exploiter/Spyder on Ebay

[xlrogue6]

Re David's last paragraph and Ox's reply:
 
The important thing is to be good at it--if you aren't, that would of course make you an Indecent Ox-poser.
 
Sorry about that.....couldn't help it.

[bsee]

I suspect that technique requires a lot of gain, and either serious compression or absolutely fabulous control.  
 
BTW, did anyone else contact the seller on this bass to try to straighten him out about what he has?  I don't think he'll listen to anyone that doesn't have an @alembic.com email address at this point, since I suspect at least three or four of us without that moniker have already done so.

[effclef]

Thanks, Oliver. Looks like I'll be taking a closer look via the Ox-Cam on the Kids Are Alright DVD!
 
EffClef

[bracheen]

bsee, I contacted the seller when this topic first came up in another thread.  I think it was titled Oh My God!  or something similar.
I asked if he was sure of the discription because it looked like a Series 1 with quilt maple to me.
His response, while polite, was quite adament that the discription was correct, SII w/flame maple.  I copied the response verbatum in the other thread.
 
Sam
 

[bsee]

Sam-
 
I did the same, as did at least one other preson I know of, and got the same response.  I told him that I had verified that it is a series I with Alembic, and he did not respond.  
 
I think he believes that he is sitting on a gold mine and won't hear the truth.  I just think he could use a dose of reality, and that his false advertisement of the bass could lead to problems, both for him and the eventual buyer.  I don't want to complain to eBay and see his liting shut down for false claims, as that would inconvenience at least one of our friends here.  I would, however, like to see him forced to update the description and reconsider his reserve before the auction draws to a close.
 
Additionally, he claims that he had the bass built for him and that the receipt says it is a Series II.  This might be an issue for Alembic to deal with if the dealer he bought through sold it to him as a Series II at a Series II price.  That may be water under the bridge at this point, but the issue could arise if he is ever convinced that it is really a Series I.

[senmen]

Bob,
no it doesn?t require much gain or volume.
It works with a Spyder even if the signal is clear. Try it out!
 
Oliver (Spyderman)

[ox_junior]

Oliver,
 
I'll be getting my Exploiter set up this weekend with the action extremely low so I can master the technique you mentioned.  I've seen John do this a lot and have tried to imitate it, but it doesn't work too well if the action is too high.  I remember reading that JE didn't need a lot of volume to do this (although volume was his friend), but the action on the guitar is critical.
 
BSee - thanks for pointing out to the seller that he has a Series I - I didn't want to be the one to do it since I want to buy it.  It does appear he may be in for a somewhat rude awakening to find that he will not be able to get the kind of money he's looking for.  I'm sure he knows the Spyder edition exists, which creates competition for what he's selling.  I will make him a generous offer at the end of the auction, I hope he takes advantage of it.
 
Mica pointed out to me that it is very possible his original dealer may have erred when putting the receipt together.  But...if he's truly the original owner and had the bass custom-ordered, wouldn't he know what he was buying in the first place?
 
XLRouge - bad joke but clever!
 
Mike Bisch

[bsee]

I wasn't talking about distortion or preamp gain per se, but about gain in general to create volume.  There's got to be a significant volume difference between that style of playing and full-bore fingerstyle, using a pick, or slap/pop, right?  By definition, if you're hitting the strings lightly, they aren't moving as much as if you're slamming them around with some other technique.  Therefore, you need to amplify the result more in order to reach the same volume level, right?  So, with the signal thus amplified, if you then revert to a more feisty method of moving the strings, intentionally or not, the result should be some seriously loud notes.
 
So the question, how do you get enough volume for the light touch to come through while protecting against a significantly heavier hit?  I thought that you would set an electrical ceiling on the power of a note to be passed up the chain with compression.  You still want to be able to control dynamics, so you can't totally lock things down, but you want some protection, right?  This difference in amplification requirement between styles might explain the need for JE to have switchable master volume settings on his guitars.

[senmen]

Mike,Bob......
Mike: take care because if you have the setup that low it is more than close to rattle. But on the other side you will see that you get a much more trebly sound with many overtones. Also, as you already said, fast runs and triplets are much more easier to play than with a higher setting of course. Especially Johns speed triplets are very hard to do on a higher setup.
 
Bob: for me personally I really don?t need more volume for the typewriter thing because with this the sound gets much more percussive with more highs and overtones than normal fingerstyle. Believe me. I am no sound technician but maybe it is also the different way in which the strings vibrate. With normal fingerstyle the strings vibrate more horizontally while with the typewriter style they vibrate more in a vertical direction.....
 
Oliver (Spyderman)

[rogertvr]

Interesting discussion this, about gain and protection.
 
One thing has surprised me with The Dragon's Wing, and that is the range of dynamics that are possible.  I have found that the best thing for me (I'm not a great fan of compressors) is to set up the input to my mixer so that it just about peaks with gentle playing. Of course, really getting stuck in means that I would be well over the top in the gain stakes. Simple answer to this - turn the bass down.  Bit difficult in the middle of songs to keep messing about with the volume but there's not really much I play that requires such a vast difference of volume as a song progresses anyway.
 
I'm open to other ideas regarding control. The 'turn the bass down' system goes back lots and lots of years for me as my 4001 responds sort of in the same way as the DW, it's just less sensitive and less dynamic. I'm always open for being educated if anyone wants to share their secrets!
 
Cheers,
 
Rog

[bsee]

Rog-
 
As I understand it, that's a perfect place to use compression.  You certainly want to prevent extreme signals from reaching the mixer and the audience.  You would prefer to control this through your fingers.  That is, you want to play with the right amount of energy relative to the volume setting on your bass to produce an appropriate signal.  Great, as long as you do.
 
What happens if you don't?  Right now, unless your mixer has a built in compressor that is handling it behind the scenes, an overzealous note goes straight out to the audience at full power, possibly with some distortion thrown in for good measure.  
 
Well, here's where the compression comes in.  A quality compressor should be able to catch that note before it gets to the amp.   It can either cut it off at your comfortable max volume, acting as a limiter, or it can reduce the signal strength by a percentage of the excess power.  Yes, this is likely to alter the character of the tone, but only if you were going to sound bad anyway.
 
For you, a compressor would be insurance.  It's not there unless you get too loud, but it hurt's less when you do.  
 
Of course, cheap anything doesn't work right, and poor implementation can do in the best of plans.  Consider this a theoretical solution to your problem that may be worth playing with a bit.

[jagerphan84]

I also emailed the seller letting him know that he has a Series I, not a Series II.  I received the following reply:
 
-- Hi! Thanks for the info on the electronics. I wouldn't want to steer anyone wrong but what I wrote in my description is what Alembic had told me on my receipt. I called them and told them my situation and gave them the Serial # and they said it is a Series I PF-6B electronics. They don't know how this happened. Again, thanks! --
 
But apparently he does not feel the need to change the listing or make a note of the correct information.  Doesn't seem like the most honest seller, but at least WE know the truth now.
 
Adam

[kungfusheriff]

Here's another, sorta. Guess it was just a matter of time before This Joker chimed in:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4713&item=3720972780&rd=1

[ox_junior]

Adam, agree with your post.  I still want that bass though.  Like I said, I won't pay more than it's worth.  I'll let someone slightly more foolish than I do so.  I'm glad the seller is finally aware of what he has, but you're right in that the information on the auction page continues to mislead some (except the inquiring minds who want to know).
 
Funny that Ed Roman is STARTING the bidding at $7,500.  This thread must be starting a rush on these basses.  SHHHHH!  You guys are driving up the costs!!!
 
Mike

[ajdover]

Fellow Alembicans,
 
    Seems to me that the starting bid on Ebay for the Spyder offered by Ed Roman Guitars and referred to by kungfusherriff in the last post is pretty close to list - Bass Central's list price for a Spyder is $8600 or so (based on latest price increases according to the site), and superbass.net has one that they sold that listed at $9650.  Mica, Val, help here?
 
I bought mine through Beaver and the good folks at Bass Central.  Oliver purchased his instruments there as well. Frankly, I think the seller in this case is starting the bidding too high based on list prices as stated elsewhere.  I say this based solely on my experience with Bass Central.  If the seller is trying to get more than list (don't know if he is or not), I think that's pretty smarmy, but that's just my opinion.  Reminds me of car dealers who charge over MSRP when a hot new model comes out, even though the car is only worth what the sticker says.  Six months later, the price comes down, but the car dealer has already taken a number of folks for a good amount of cash.  
 
Now, people will pay what they're willing to pay, and no one's putting a gun to their heads and telling them to buy something.  As PT Barnum once said, there's a sucker born every minute.  Some folks will gladly pay more than they should, and will rationalize the purchase any way they can.  Afterwards, they'll realize they paid too much, and then it's too late.  As the saying goes, caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.
 
Most of us in this club, I think, are willing to pay a little more since we know each Alembic is unique, and the product of superlatively skilled craftsmen and women.  That doesn't mean we want to overpay, either.  It does mean that we'll pay more for a quality instrument than we would for, say, a Fender or Gibson, and at the same time support a family owned business that's been building (IMHO) the best basses (and guitars) on the planet since the 1970's.  Kind of like quid pro quo for everyone concerned.  Speaking only for myself, I'm glad I'm able to support Alembic.  In today's age of instant gratification, high speed everything, and over-engineered mass-produced crap, it's good to know there are still folks out there who take the time to do it right.  
 
In any event, as fine as my Spyder is (and it is fine, believe me!) it is not one of John Entwistle's original instruments.  To me, that is the ultimate Spyder owner's dream - to own one of JE's original Spyders (right, Oliver?).  For that, I'd pay over list price.  Wayyyyyy ovvvverrr.  Unfortunately, I can't afford it! Damn, where's that winning lottery ticket when you need it?
 
Anyone wishing to talk about my sales experience(price paid, service, communication, etc.) with Bass Central can email me if so inclined.  Suffice to say I recommend them wholeheartedly, and I plan on purchasing my next Alembic through them if that is possible.  I got what I wanted, and at what I thought was a fair price for both parties concerned.
 
Again, as they always say, caveat emptor.
 
Alan