Alembic Bass and Appropriate Amplification

[kata3901]

I am relatively new to Alembic and am looking for professional advise as to appropriate amplification and matched speaker configuration for my Rogues custom electronics and Series II electronics.  Any direction/advice would be helpful as I beleive there has to be a better match for these basses than what Eden, Ampeg, or any other commercial type amplification system provides.    
 
Your thoughts?
 
(Message edited by kata3901 on May 04, 2004)

[ajdover]

Kata,
 
    Frankly, it depends on what you like.  I've owned Fender, Hartke, Ampeg, Crate, Peavey ... etc., you name it.  It all depends on what you're looking for and what you like.  I'd recommend you focus less on brand and more on sound.  If a decent Ampeg rig gives you the sound you want, then go with it.  On the other hand, if an F1X, or and Ashdown, or Eden, or custom made setup, etc. gives you the sound you're looking for, go with that.  Speaking only for myself, I'm always open to better rigs.  Right now, I'm using Ampeg because it works for me.  I used Hartke prior to that.  Who knows?  Maybe later I'll find something better.
 
    My recommendation is you try out a lot of gear if you can.  Then pick what's the best for you based on your needs and wants.  Eventually, you'll settle on something you like.  
 
    If you have the wherewithal and you have friends who own different stuff, you might want to try your Alembics through their equipment.  If not, go to as many music stores as you can who have gear you're interested in and try your instrument through them. You'll probably find something you like if you haven't already.
 
  Speaking only for myself, I had my Ampegs before I got Alembics.  I've been happy with them so far.  To each his/her own I always say.
 
Best of luck,
 
Alan
 
 

[palembic]

Hi Tim,
 
 
welcome to the club.
You came to the right place!
You don't know me -but the others do- so forgive me that I asked my Colleague Paul's to come over here. We have an old new Paul -Paul the roginal original one (he goes back faaaaaaaaaaaaaar into the past, into the darg ages of Yahoomembership- so this is our first time we put our table down so we can sing together.
Ready guys?
PICURES - PICTURES - PICTURES
wow-oh ....stop-stop ...Pauls we have to practice  ***sigh***. I suppose we'll have another beer first!
 
So Tim ...surprise us with some juicy pictures of those two baby's you're fooling around with (oh ...huh ...I definitely have to clean up my english ...words seem to come out the wrong way).
 
About your amp question.
I think that the commercial brands do a good job but it is highly a question of taste. I discovered when buying my setup that there is a HUGE tonal difference between speakers. I use GLOCKENKLANG cabs and I LIKE them. Our brother Spyder Ollie tried them too in Hilversum and he absolutely didn't like them. Reason: they are super-hi-fi-clean. So for Ollie it will be Eden, or Epifani or ...whatever more nosy sounding cab.
SOmething you only discover by putting them side by side and playing through 1 amp. To do that I would suggest to use a very simple amp. A F1-X with a Poweramp combination is a VERY good start. The Alembic F1-X is a Fender bassman based principle. A poweramp -I don't say there are no differences in P'amps- is straightforward and not really tone coloring.
So I suggest you:
1. decide a average roomsituation you are playing in. Then you decide what power you need, portable, transportable ...
2. Based on that first investment is a good pair of speakers. (Don't forget the ACME possibilty). Brother Bill (Sterling) also a famous clubmember is in the middle of a speaker A/B-ing procedure so you should drop him a line maybe (although ...knowing Bill ...he WILL report).
3. Decide if you want an all in one amp or a put together combination of pre-amp, filter and P'amp.
The only thing I can say here is that you abolutely have to see to it that the amp is far MORE powerfull than the maximum load of your cabs. Reason: there is nothing more dangerous for a good cab than a overloaded and clipping amp. He gets out of control and so a small amp can easily blow a huge cab. So it is always better to work with a HIGH powered amp that you put on lower volume.
 
Oh ...huhuh ...I TALK to much.
Just my two cents ...yeah ...right ....two cents ...HA!
 
 
Paul the bad one
 
 
PS: I remeber something. Back in the days when I was young ( looooooooooooooo-ong time ago ...although I am still in puberty) I went out with my brother to buy a new stereo chain with pick-up (you know the thing ...for records ...the black discs ...with the small hole in the middle ....LOL) and the whole bunch.
There was a wise sales-man who said: you will have the best set-uo if you go for the best start of the chain and for the best end of the chain. So choose the best needle for the best pick-up player and choose the best speakers. Economise on everything between. You know ...it is the same here. You are already alfway seen the purchase of Alembic pick-ups (oh ...huh ...well they put some nice wood around it and called it a guitar LOL) now ...the cabs!!!!

[mint_bass]

hi welcome to the club  
 
i am about to buy an ashdown combo they sound really nice with my epic so try them out they have something for every budget from cheap to expensive check them out

[Manfred]

I've tried almost everything I guess. The three amps I like best are the Mesa Boogie 400 and the M2000 amps (I haven't tried the Big Block 750 though)and the Alembic F1-X/SF-2 combination (I've sold the Boogie btw). I use the Alembics with a 1200W (bridged) poweramp and two Hevos 2x10 prototype cabs which are very light but they can handle 800W per cab easily.
 
Manfred

[jeff]

Kata,
 
I'm also a big Ampeg fan, and if you haven't heard an Alembic Series bass thru Ampeg's awesome pro cabinet, the PR410HLF, then you have not heard what Ampeg can do for your sound.  This 4-10 cabinet is expensive ($1400. list) and built like a tank (128 lbs.) but those 56 oz. magnets and the 13 ply birch structure give you premium tone and really deep bottom (-3db at 33hz).  Use two of these cabinets with a powerful amp and be prepared to fall in love.  I did.
 
Jeff

[jazzyvee]

Like many others I tried many combinations of amps and speakers. ( I have to say though here in the uk there is not the same kind of range as you get in the states and the prices are scary too.) Smaller market and only a limited range from  the more popular amp and speakers.  
 
I settled on Mesa Boogie gear and regardless of price these to my ears were the best sounding combination that I was able to test in a music store.  
 
I even had to wait over 2 months for the 15 bass cab to arrive.
 
I don't doubt the combination of the Fx-1 and a separate power amp would be great. I daren't even try plugging my bass in that kind of stuff as I'd probably end up giving my bank balance a severe bashing.
 
That said i can't complain about the sound of my mesa boogie rig. The recent purchase of the SF-2 has improved things no-end and has brought in the lower end of the spectrum much better.
 
I also have to consider the portability aspect too.
based also on the fact I don't need a huge setup, the thought of having to carry around the weight of a mega bass rig is a bit too much hassle personally, and added to that most of my gigs have the bass de-id from the back of the boogie amp anyway so I only need a good bass sound on stage not to fill a venue hall.
 
For what it's worth the ones I really disliked were Trace Elliot, Ashdown and EBS they just sounded too thin.
 
Eden, SWR, Ampeg all sounded good but I prefered the boogie.
 
 
Having said all that I did a gig towards the end of last summer at an outdoor music festival and the backline came with a ampeg 6x10 bass cabs and a rack mounted ampeg amp and that...... my friends was serious sounding bit of kit.  
 
~Nuff Said
 

[kayo]

Kata
 
As can be noted, you already have received useful feedback from Alan, Paul TBO, Manfred, Jeff and Jazzyvee.
 
Though this may come across redundant - I suggest the following approach.  Begin by identifying your critical criteria that sets the threshhold for your decision making:
 
1) What is your budget
2) Is there a minimum wattage requirement
3) Are you partial to combos, or component(best of breed) system designs
4) Do you have a preference for speaker configurations (2/10, 4/10, 1/15, 1/12, 2/12 - etc)
5) What kind of venues do you tend to play in
6) Do you have restrictions as to the size and/or weight of the rig
7) How important is tone shaping at the pre-amp/amp stage to you
Do you prefer solid state vs tube or vice versa (perhaps a hybrid)
 
Once you have addressed all these more salient issues - you will have limited the number of products that address the criteria that fits your needs/wants.  You will find that in each relative category (assuming that you are as much the discerning amplification afficionado as you are the top shelf instrument enthusiast).  
 
With just a handful of top-end vendors that can satiate the criteria in the answers you will have compiled in the short list above, you will have taken the biggest step towards identifying what products you should be investing your time in evaluating.
 
Have fun ~ cheers!!!
 
 

[jseitang]

trying to figure out the best way to amplify your alembic is something i've been trying to do for years...
i really think it comes down to two things:
the preamp and the kind of power amp you are using
preamp, well alembic is the place for that, bar none, however the poweramp question is very illusive to me still.
any ideas?

[kata3901]

I appreciate all your responses. Thanks to each and everyone of you!  
 
Again, I would add: These basses, in my opinion, tend to be limited, in their inherent design and capabilities, by these commercial type amps. I have not been impressed by any of these commercial amps with my Alembic basses. On the other hand, my Smith basses are a very good match with the Edens and Ampegs. I gotta trust these alembic basses would sound killer through a very clean power amp such as a Crown or like. Has anyone used a Crown or equivalent amp as the power source? If so, what speaker set-up did you use with it? How did you like it compared to the commercial bass amp lines?  
 
Thanks in advance for your response.  
 
Tim B.

[thebass]

I am using a QSC RMX-2450 fed by a F-1X and SF-2 chain. The QSC powers a SWR Megoliath (upper and lower half separately per channel). That's 1500W pure Bass not limited by any compressor. It's just the best killer tone I've heard in 25 years of using almost any available equipment (I've sold my Glockenklang for this).

[kata3901]

thebass,  
 
Thank you for your response.  This is the direction I was seeking.  
 
Tim B.
 
(Message edited by kata3901 on May 05, 2004)

[David Houck]

Welcome to the group.  By the way, this discussion has been threaded many times before and we have a nice search feature that you may find helpful.  For instance, you could probably run a search on Crown Amp and find the members who use Crown and discussions about them.
 
I'm not quite sure what you mean by commercial.  You seem to be saying that while Eden is commerical, Crown is not.  As far as I am aware, Crown does not give their amps away; I'm fairly sure they are as much a commercial enterprise as Eden, Fender and Alembic .
 
To address your question; I use an F-1X and SF-2 with power provided by a QSC PLX 2402.  For cabs I have an Acme B-2, a Bag End D10X-D, two Eden 210-XLT's, and for when I need to push a lot of air an SWR 610 Goliath Senior.  I also have an Eden WT-800 but much prefer the sound of the F-1X through the QSC.  But there is certainly nothing wrong with the WT-800; it and the two XLT's are great together and cut through quite nicely when playing with two rock guitar players.  I like the sound of the Acme, and I like the sound of the Bag End, which is quite different; and I like the sound of the two of them together.  If I'm playing a coffee house, my first choice is the Acme.  If I need a little more volume I'll also take the Bag End.  If I'm playing with a band, I'll take the Acme and one Eden.  I like the Edens, the two of them together are quite nice.  But the Acme really warms up the low end.  The Bag End and Edens have what some people call high end sizzle while the Acme is just very clean with that great low end.  In a couple weeks I'll be playing outside where I plan to take the Acme and the SWR.  I haven't taken the SWR out in quite a while and never with the Acme, so it will be interesting to see how they sound together.

[thebass]

Hi Tim,  
 
SF-2 is Alembics Superfilter. You'll find more Info here http://www.alembic.com/prod/sf2.html
 
(Message edited by thebass on May 05, 2004)

[kata3901]

Davehouck,  
 
Thank you for your follow-up.  
 
I am referring to commercial amps as your mainstream type bass amplification.  It is not common that you see QSC or Crown as your mainstream bass amplification. No complaints with Eden or Ampeg.  Relatively speaking, they certainly serve the bass player well, however, I am not impressed with the match-up of these amps with Alembic Basses.  
 
I think you and thebass are on track with the QSC for the purest bass amplification for Alembic Basses.  I beleive the Alembic Bass Electronics and construction (which gives the Alembic their unique voice), as they are designed, will carry the rest of the load and provide the Alembic Bassist with the best and second to none bass tone imaginable.
 
Make sense?
 
Thanks again,  
 
Tim B.