Author Topic: Various Alembics on CD (Read 299 times)

jazzyvee · « **on:** May 21, 2004, 03:01:45 AM »

Hi Mica, have you ever thought of recording the sound of each of the standard Alembic models and some of the custom orders that you make and put on a CD so that any bassists or guitarists thinking of buying one can order a cd from you and at least have an opportunity to hear the basses before ordering.

This I think would be help to those of us who would like to purchase one but live far away from anywhere that we could actually play some of the models.

As these are expensive instruments it would be nice to actually get an idea of what these would sound like so that we can get the right one.

Although I love my SC Deluxe, the fact of the matter is that I have that model because it was the only alembic in the shop. Had I been able to hear a Series I or II even, I may have bought that one instead.

What do you think?
Jazzyvee

dnburgess · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2004, 03:12:11 AM »

Rather than make a recording - why not just make a list of reference recordings. i.e. Publicly available recordings that are known to have been made with Alembic instruments that particularly highlight the qualities of the relevant model. Maybe Alembic could get their artist relations department (just kidding) to get the information from well recorded users.

David B.

keavin · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2004, 03:36:25 AM »

Brilliant!!!

bsee · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2004, 04:07:21 AM »

There is maybe some value in David's idea, but I would be extremely skeptical of using it to decide what to buy. The variable combinations of electronics and technique that go into those kinds of recordings would invalidate any intrument-to-instrument comparisons for me.

I think you would have to stick closer to the original idea if you wanted to use it as a differentiator between basses. Set up a 'reference system' for flat response and then run the bass through a few different styles of playing. Alter the sound using only the controls on the bass to show the versatility of the electronics package.

This wouldn't be about musical creativity. You would want to pretty much play the same lines over and over while the only things changing would be the pickup and preamp settings.

I think it would be interesting and inspiring to hear the public recordings made with Alembics, but I don't think it would help me understand the differences between models and options.

Just my opinion...
-Bob

David Houck · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2004, 05:33:14 AM »

If I recall correctly, an idea like this was suggestion previously. At that time however, since the members of this group collectively own practically all the models and wood combinations, it was suggested by several of our group that we the members make these recordings. As I recall, the idea was that each member who wanted to participate would record straight to the computer without going through any amps, etc. The idea never got off the ground.

jeff · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2004, 05:45:37 AM »

I also agree that there is some value in David's idea but bsee is right - there are so many variables in the chain of sound that you can't be certain about exactly what it is that you are hearing. Even putting aside the electronics issue, as bsee mentioned a players technique can make a huge difference in how the bass sounds. The late John Entwhistle and Stanley Clarke were/are great bass players and both played Alembics, but do you think if they could have played the same bass it would sound the same?

bassman10096 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2004, 11:02:33 AM »

Despite the probability of differences, the lack of available sound samples is a problem for those of us unable to get to hear and play models and variations. Lightwave produced sound samples of its pickups on a stock demo bass (the only model they themselves have produced to date) illustrating slap, finger and chord play. Same bass player, bass run straight into a board w/out preamp. Having heard their bass in person, it was not a bad representation. I liked knowing the tone was not influenced by the variety of preamps that could be used, but readily was able to hear what my F1-X would do to the tone. I think some of the potential differences could be ironed out if standardized control settings were used to sample each bass.

Bill

dnburgess · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2004, 04:18:43 PM »

If you were building a house, would you rather check out building materials or look at pictures of finished houses to see how those materials were used? Probably a bit of both - but my inspiration is more likely to come from a cool house than a brick. But then again - maybe some really nice design element might drive the overall design. Hmm, I think I've done this metaphor to death.

David B.

bassman10096 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2004, 07:06:38 PM »

David: I think the metaphor is fine. And I totally agree, as far as how I'd want to make a final selection. However, even at that, I just got lucky that I already knew what S2 electronics sounded like (and knew I wanted this) when I made final choices for my bass.

It's very difficult to find anything with Signature, Europa, much less Anniversary electronics to try out without serious travel from here. The only Alembic dealer within easy reach never stocks anything upscale from an Essence. Susan mentioned that an increasing number of people are ordering Alembics without ever having played one! Sound samples are a long way from perfect-or even good. But they may still be enough better than nothing to be worthwhile.

Of course I'd still want to hear first-hand and play any instrument that requires a commitment like an Alembic. However, during the Dreaming stage, I'd kind of like to have something to listen to...

I can certainly understand why other folks might not agree. But for me - a little data is better than none, as long as I understand its limitations.

Bill

ajdover · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2004, 07:26:33 PM »

As far as ordering an Alembic without ever having played one goes, I offer the following ....

I bought my first Alembic, my '84 Spoiler-Exploiter, via Ebay.

I bought my second, my Spyder (#7) without ever having played it.

Finally, I bought my Europa without ever having played it either.

On the first one, I had no choice. On the Spyder, I knew it was going to be great (and it is) based on the first. On the Europa, I knew it would be great since I'd played an Orion, which is similar (though not the same, I realize). In all three cases I was more than satisfied.

Bottom line is Alembic has a reputation, and folks are willing to pay for that sight (and sound) unseen (unheard). I've not been disappointed, and suspect others haven't been either.

Just my two cents,

Alan

bassman10096 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2004, 04:59:13 AM »

I think Alembic's reputation is pretty unique to have so many people taking the various leaps of faith described. I took mine when I bought my Spoiler. I didn't have any ears on experience with the model. I too was NOT dissapointed!

Which other designer/manufacturer can make this boast? Not sure there would be any...

(All that said, I'd still like sound samples. But this has turned into an interesting discussion, as so many do around here.)

Bill

jazzyvee · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2004, 06:19:05 AM »

Having bought an Alembic SC Signature I am very comfortable with the workmanship and the feel of the instrument and if I was buying another one or even a 5 string version I wouldn't have any problem in ordering one and wait till i get it to hear.

However if I was buying another model without the opportunity of going to a dealer to play it,
I'd like to know that sonically I was going to hear some major differences between a SC Signature and a Series I or II bass of the same shape for the price difference. I assume there would be but it would be nice to at least be able to hear it.

dannobasso · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2004, 06:53:11 AM »

I purchased (ordered)7 out of 10 basses sight unseen. My first I just said I'll take it! 1 SC deluxe used ay Ash, saw-played bought, used exploiter, knew of the bass, he needed cash, opened the case, gave cash, closed case, went home and played it. After hearing Romantic Warrior, I knew I wanted one. After hearing the Dregs, I wanted one more. Every bass that was ordered was an exercise in faith built on trust based on a few phone calls with Mica, Susan, and Washington Music. This exercise will be repeated a few more times before I check out. I know a S11 is in my future. Never fear the unknown when the Wickershams are involved.
Danno

jet_powers · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2004, 07:09:25 AM »

When I bought my Rogue 5 the guy in the shop was incredulous that I din't want to plug it in. I didn't really have to. I knew it would sound great! I just wanted to check out the feel.

still..... I think it would be way cool to be able to hear what different woods and pick ups, etc. would sound like coming from a controlled environment.

JP

David Houck · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2004, 07:15:01 AM »

I've been following this thread and the more I think about it the more I think that this would be an exceedingly difficult enterprise and that the result may be overwhelming. For instance, let's start with a Series II. As we all know, just a small movement of the filter knob makes a big difference in tone; so we will have to record at several positions of the filter knob. After all, some people play with the filter all the way open, and some never open the filter all the way; so we have to examples of different filter settings. And as has been mentioned in a previous post, we will have to do these examples in different right hand techniques; finger style, slap, etc.; since that makes a big difference in tone. Then will have to do each of the filter examples in each technique with the different Q settings since some people usually leave the Q on and some people rarely use the Q; and of course on the Series II this will necessitate several examples of each as well. Then since some prefer the neck pickup and others prefer the bridge pickup and others prefer some combination of the two, we will have to have examples of each filter position in each hand technique in each Q postion in each pickup combination. It does seem reasonable to expect that a Series II played slap style at the fret board with the neck pickup on full with the neck filter open and the neck Q at half and the bridge pickup at half with the bridge filter at half and the bridge Q on full is going to sound different than the same Series II played finger style at the bridge with the neck pickup at half with the neck filter at half and the neck Q on full and the bridge pickup on full with the bridge filter on full and the bridge Q on half. etc. ad infinitum. Conservatively, that's about 400 different examples of what this particular Series II sounds like. Now we can move to our second bass, another Series II like the first with only a different top wood; add another 400. Notice the difference the top wood makes when both basses are played slapstyle at the bridge with the front pickup at 1/4, filter at 3/4, Q at ...