Author Topic: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed  (Read 166 times)

edwardofhuncote

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Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« on: July 12, 2025, 04:55:14 AM »
After an exhaustive search for an instrument that had a very specific set of specs, just the right combination of one that was structurally sound, but needed some fixin' up, and still hit a price-point I could live with... I finally found it.

This Gibson F-2 mandolin was in assembly in the Kalamazoo factory in 1912, according to its Factory Order Number, but the handwritten Serial Number on its paper label tells us it didn't ship out until 1915. This is somewhat ordinary, though it usually isn't that long between.

This one has the birch sides and back, with spruce top, and 3-piece mahogany neck with the ebony reinforcement strip. This was the core set of specs I was looking for... and only available for a few years in the early/mid nineteen-teens. By 1922, it's virtually impossible to find one made like this... they had evolved beyond this design, as things do. Obviously there are many other small differences, but this set of criteria is what I really wanted. If you play these oval hole Gibsons much, you get to know that characteristic thumpy sound they make. It's not a bluegrass mandolin. That's two or three generations later. The birch sides and back make these sound more mellow and woody than the later maple ones. The F-bodies with their extra mass at the scroll and the headstock tend be heavier on sustain that the A-bodies don't do as well. And c'mon... who doesn't appreciate that scrollwork?

Anyway, I got it a couple days ago, and did some basic setup work to it... fit the bridge to the top a little better. I'll probably replace it later anyway, with a more correct ebony part. It's fine like this, functionally. I filed the nut slots a little, and put some dampening material in the tailpiece to stop any sympathetic noise. (this is adhesive-backed cork, and a little strip of felt) Restrung it with a new set of D'Addario lights.

A couple little details, the inlaid 'Handel' tuners... still 100% functional, and pretty darn smooth. Gibson used these until their source for them disappeared around 1918. Probably a casualty of World War 1. No one is certain. The little chicane in the fingerboard between the 19th and 20th fret... know what that's for? Absolutely nothing, but to catch your eye. That didn't last long either, but it sure was a nice touch. It was simplified in subsequent years. My F-2 here has what they call the 'pumpkin-top' finish... I would have preferred the black-top varnish, but this is actually quite nice too, and seen less often than the black or red sunburst ones. Some of you might remember the pumpkin-topped 1914 L-1 guitar I had... or the pumpkin-topped A-model I restored over in the Scroll Shop a couple years ago - same finish.

I finally got to spend some quality time with it on the front porch spot afterwards yesterday evening. Mandolin Poisoning is a recurring problem... and I have relapsed.  :P

jon_jackson

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2025, 05:20:36 AM »
Congratulations on your relapse! That is a beautiful instrument!
2011 Quilted Maple Dragon Wing, Anniversary Electronics
2007 Quilted Cocobolo Custom 5-string Tribute-body Bass ("Scarlet")
2006 Cocobolo SC Deluxe SS
2003 Quilted Maple Series II Europa ("Almost Twins")
1996 Flame Walnut Elan fretless
1994 Flame Maple Classico
1976 Walnut Series I SS

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2025, 05:50:27 AM »
A couple more pumpkin-tops... a 1916 A-model restoration project that followed me home from Fret Mill Music one time, gifted to a very good friend upon completion, and a 1914 L-1 guitar from the ill-spent days of my spotty youth. I should get them all together.

David Houck

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2025, 07:13:59 AM »
Congrats!  Great that you found it!

rv_bass

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2025, 01:59:43 PM »
Great looking mandolin, I like the color too! 😊

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2025, 04:46:13 PM »
I'm out here putting in a little more time on it this evening... one of the things it really needs badly; frets. They had been leveled and dressed so low at the (I'll call it the 'business end') of the fingerboard up near the nut, that it takes a good bit of effort to get a clean, clear note. So it really needs to be refretted. I already talked to my good friend and former mentor Ward Elliott about this. He's done hundreds, maybe close to a thousand of these. He says if the fingerboard is in good shape and actually slotted true (which he says they often weren't) that we should just refret it as-is. If not, we'll just lamp that board, take it off whole to keep for posterity, and replace the whole thing with a replica that is correct. From what I can tell, the intonation is actually very, very good. Maybe even better than my 1919 A-model is, so I'm thinking I'll just have him coach me through a full proper refret. We'll use the correct 0.040 wire, so it'll be just like new. I'll probably make a new nut, or possibly shim the original with a piece of my reclaimed ivory piano keys. I'm really lucky to have someone like Ward to help me out on stuff like this... I could do it, and I will be doing the work, but it takes all the anxiety out knowing he's got my back.


I ordered a new grained ivoroid endpin for it today, and a nice leather strap. While I had a few minutes this afternoon, I cleaned up the original hardshell case.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2025, 04:51:49 PM by edwardofhuncote »

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2025, 06:25:44 PM »
Sweet!
When I met (and did sound for) my dear friend the late Chicago folk legend Mick Scott, he had a 1916 or '17 (hey, a half-century of bad decisions can blur the details.....) A model (black finish).  I heard him play several very nice mandos over the years, but none came close to that one ; Lloyd Loar was all well & good, but I love those old ones!
His came with a cool story, too.  He was at a party with his friend John Burns, and John's dad said "You should learn to play mandolin; here" and handed him the A.
John's dad's name was Kenneth - but you all would know him as Jethro Burns.

Peter
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peoplechipper

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2025, 08:24:08 PM »
that's really nice, congrats!

bigredbass

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2025, 06:31:26 PM »
I'm convinced I could find a mandolin or a box guitar washed up on a beach, and Ed of H could have it in fighting shape after a while.

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2025, 06:58:59 PM »
I'm convinced I could find a mandolin or a box guitar washed up on a beach, and Ed of H could have it in fighting shape after a while.

I used to have a link (now, alas dead) to a start-to-finish series of pictures of restoring a Martin M-36 that had gotten run over by a car; broken neck, shattered top & back, splintered sides - you name it: and it was restored to playing condition using almost exclusively the original wood.

I'm not sure anyone could convince me that wasn't Greg's work, ya heard?

Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

peoplechipper

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2025, 08:54:18 PM »
Paul Iverson here in Vancouver's like that; he fixed a Yamaha that someone sat on and caved the top into chunks...I gave it to my brother and it is a killer sounding guitar; so much so that Paul offered to keep it if I didn't want to pay the repair...

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2025, 04:09:41 AM »
Having been around and worked on a few of these, I knew which issues to avoid when buying. I didn't mind an instrument that needed work, in fact, I used that as a means to buy something affordable. But when you're shopping for an instrument that's 100+ years old... that kinda' presents a set of standards that aren't ordinarily in play.

With antique Gibson mandolins, especially these oval-hole ones, things you look for;

1. Top sinkage. The tops are carved, with only one transverse brace not far behind the soundhole. They tend to collapse under the bridge, or swell under the tailpiece as the instrument tries to 'fold'.

2. Seam separation. If the ribs have ever popped loose from the top or back, and weren't glued back quickly, they tended to deform. And sometimes they just expanded or contracted at different rates. Mine has a very slight seam separation in the lower bout, back-to-side... it's been glued. I may try to disassemble it and coax it back to shape. Or just leave it alone.

3. Waist spring. Especially common to the A-body mandolins for some reason... the sides 'spring' open at the body waist, right at the end of the neck block. My 1919 A-model was like this at some point in its past, but had been repaired, possibly under warranty. (for sure it went back to Kalamazoo at least once... and received a late-30's stenciled logo)

4. Neck relief. Gibson mandolins did not have adjustable truss-rods until 1922. They did have ebony neck reinforcement. Most of the time, that's plenty, but if there's too much relief such that you can't get the action right, you have to do it with compression fretting or in extreme cases, inlaying carbon fiber rods under the fingerboard.

5. I'm not sure why, but there's an awful lot of these with split tailblocks... my A-model included. It's not that hard to fix, but you have to catch it. It's often hidden under the tailpiece.

There's a handful of other issues about these that crop up, but that covers the high spots... and I've avoided the most serious of them on this F-2. It has a couple classic faults inherent to them. Note in the pictures the little cracks from the point at the lower bout, and the one in the swirl of the scroll... it's rare to find an F-body without these. Why? Well... I think it's because the wood block that's underneath the top at each of these locations is a different kind of wood, that expands and contracts at a very different rate and direction from the quartersawn spruce top. They aren't detrimental to the instrument. It would be better if they weren't there, but hey... whatchagonnado? Then there's the old headstock scroll repair. How did so many of these things get snapped off? Are there that many clumsy mandolinists? Me, I think they got broken in the case. Trust me, that case doesn't offer much protection... it wouldn't take much of a careless drop to bang that headstock hard enough to snap the little scroll off. At least it's easy to fix.

So I've got a little work to do... but it's mostly what I'd call maintenance work rather than repair. I'm really counting on Ward's critical eye here. He's an absolute master builder, as in, could (and has) scratch-built these things. When we get done it'll play like it's 1912 again.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2025, 05:04:18 AM by edwardofhuncote »

peoplechipper

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Re: Mandolin Poisoning; relapsed
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2025, 09:53:04 PM »
Man, you got skills, way beyond me in wood...mind you, it's my third(?) medium; gold, bicycles, guitars...bicycles might be first; I was a really good bike mechanic and have built nearly 20000 wheels...