Loud and Clear: The Grateful Dead's Wall of Sound...

[cozmik_cowboy]

I, alas, did not get to experience The Wall, but the theory behind it makes sense to me; of course, a good engineer can EQ* almost any system to sound pretty good, but it is always harder with full-range cabs than what I usually worked with, which was 4-way - separate cabs for lows, low-mids, etc.  It would seem to follow logically that isolating the "voices" in their own speakers would make it even easier.

Were I to regain enough hearing to trust myself with someone's sound again, and could build the system of my dreams, I'd do a hybrid; a soundman out front & old-school right & left stacks, but of pairs of full-range cabs.  Get a board with a lot of subgroups & use the group outs to drive a pair of cabs for each (vocal group, drum group, etc.), plus 1 group for subwoofers (bass, keys, and kick in that one as well as their dedicated pairs).

*The most important tool a soundman has - besides his ears, of course - is a graphic equalizer; the heart of the system.

Peter (who does, in fact, realize that he's dating himself by talking about a graphic EQ instead automated computerized stuff)

[pauldo]

How would the wall of sound compare in sound quality to modern day PA systems for comparable sized venues?
I guess Bill you have first hand experience of both.

I have never experienced The Wall, nor am I Bill.

Here comes my .02 anyways.   We were just discussing this today, modern sound systems can go up to 11, it doesn’t mean they should.   

This was referencing the beginning of Summerfest, which at one time was a truly Epic musical festival.  Last time i was there we went to see Wilco, while watching their performance we could clearly hear two other stages and ‘kinda sorta’ hear a 3rd stage.

Given that we know for a fact that one of the Dead’s sound guys turned into the Wizard behind Alembic, your question should be easy to answer,

I will now defer to Bill and others who actually experienced The Wall of Sound.   Also apologize for interjection of my none sense. 

[JimmyJ]

I also never got to hear the system in person but just got the book and look forward to reading about it.  It’s great that someone documented it! 

I’ll know better after I reading … but I think the idea was that only the vocals were “mixed “ into that center array while every other instrument (indeed maybe every individual PICKUP) had its own column or speaker array. So the sound was mixing “in the air” as opposed to being combined electronically and sharing speakers.

I understand that 1-mile away it still sounded absolutely pristine!

So many innovations sprung from that bunch of creative folks, many of which are attributed to our own wizard RW. Great stuff!

Jimmy J

[cozmik_cowboy]

OK, it came; "Oh boy, a picture section!"  As always, I went there immediately.
First page shows "the earliest speakers in Dead history" - and has a caption that says "the two Klipsch horns were purchased by Garcia's mom for her son's band...."
I may have just wasted $26.  There are a few other things like that as well, like misIDing Kidd Candelario (with his unmistakable hair) as Richie Pechner.

(For those who don't know, the Klipsch horns that were the Dead's first PA started their life as Bear's personal stereo.)

Peter (who will read it anyway, figuring it can't be worse than Rock Scully's or Cindy Brightman"s turds)

[lbpesq]

Yea, the Wall was something!  I got to experience it about a dozen times in 1974.    (I pre-ordered the book and it download to my Kindle App the day it was released.)  I just started reading it and the first thing that popped out was on page five where the author wrote "the monumental concert soundsystem [sic] that the Dead built and toured with in the early 1970s."  IIRC, the Wall both debuted and was retired in 1974.  (I was at both shows as the Wall unofficially debuted at a three-night stand in Winterland in February of '74, officially debuted at the "Sound Test" at the Cow Palace in March, and was last used at the final Winterland shows in October of '74 when The Grateful Dead Movie was filmed.  The band then took a two-year hiatus, returning in '76 sans Wall.

The thing I remember most about the Wall was the clarity of the sound it produced.    And it sounded great throughout the hall.  I also remember it being immensely impressive visually, especially if one's visuals were, let us say, enhanced?    I do remember spending a lot of time staring at the curved vocal array hanging over Billy and Mickey.

Haven't read Brightman's book, but couldn't agree more regarding Skully's.

Bill, tgo
P.S. I just looked up the Brightman Book, "Sweet Chaos: The Grateful Dead's American Adventure".   It is authored by Carol Brightman, who is the sister of Candice Brightman, the Dead's lighting engineer.

[cozmik_cowboy]

Enhanced visuals indeed if you saw Mickey in '74.......      (Well, I guess I did hear that he played at the last pre-hiatus/last Wall show, so never mind.)

Carol?  I thought Cindy (but it's in a box in the attic, not having been looked at since I first gagged through it, so I may be wrong).
But yes, Candice's sister - who never saw the band until Vince was in it, and whose main thrust seems to be "I'm more '60s than the Dead, because they never went to Cuba to cut sugarcane like I did".  And a lot of interview with Sonny Barger.


Peter

[lbpesq]

Enhanced visuals indeed if you saw Mickey in '74.......      (Well, I guess I did hear that he played at the last pre-hiatus/last Wall show, so never mind.)

Peter

I was both voluntarily enhanced AND dosed at that last show.   When Mickey rejoined the band, I was trying to figure out if I was seeing double or quadruple, as I saw four drummers!   

Bill, tgo

[StephenR]

The 74 Wall was the culmination of the evolution of the Dead's sound system.  I would characterize the  start as being late 71 when Healy came to see them and told them the sound was awful. Pretty sure Alembic's involvement (and Healy's) in the PA instead of the studio recordings started in 71-72. By the end of 73 most of what would become known as the Wall of Sound was already in use but stacking it behind the band and the vocal cluster were some of the last changes, though, there were small tweaks happening in 74, too. The first time the speakers were stacked behind the band was at the Boston Music Hall in late 73. They had accumulated so much gear that it would not fit the space unless stacked on platforms behind the band. That was also apparently when Bear knew the goal of having the PA and instrument stacks behind the band could work. Pictures of the PA from the 73 Boston show are pretty easy to find online.

I was traveling cross-country and camping with my Malamute Kimo in the summer of 74 and missed the shows that year but went to a ton of shows in the 71-73 period and can vouch that by 73 the sound was amazing. Remember the Dead's PA was used at the Watkins Glenn Summer Jam with the Dead, Allman Brothers and The Band. I believe that is when Ron came up with the first delay towers. I skipped Watkins Glenn since I had seen the Dead and Allmans at RFK Stadium in June and had tickets to see the Dead and The Band at Roosevelt Stadium 7/31 and 8/1. I seem to remember that The Band didn't care for playing through the Dead's PA.

The technology pioneered for the Wall of Sound was a direct influence on the technical development of the line arrays now used for concert sound. Currently camping in Alaska so it will be a couple of weeks until I see the book but looking forward to reading it.

[cozmik_cowboy]

Enhanced visuals indeed if you saw Mickey in '74.......      (Well, I guess I did hear that he played at the last pre-hiatus/last Wall show, so never mind.)

Peter

I was both voluntarily enhanced AND dosed at that last show.   When Mickey rejoined the band, I was trying to figure out if I was seeing double or quadruple, as I saw four drummers!   

Bill, tgo

A trip I wish I could have taken with you, man!

Peter

[Quasar1]

The 74 Wall was the culmination of the evolution of the Dead's sound system.  I would characterize the  start as being late 71 when Healy came to see them and told them the sound was awful. Pretty sure Alembic's involvement (and Healy's) in the PA instead of the studio recordings started in 71-72. By the end of 73 most of what would become known as the Wall of Sound was already in use but stacking it behind the band and the vocal cluster were some of the last changes, though, there were small tweaks happening in 74, too. The first time the speakers were stacked behind the band was at the Boston Music Hall in late 73. They had accumulated so much gear that it would not fit the space unless stacked on platforms behind the band. That was also apparently when Bear knew the goal of having the PA and instrument stacks behind the band could work. Pictures of the PA from the 73 Boston show are pretty easy to find online.

I was traveling cross-country and camping with my Malamute Kimo in the summer of 74 and missed the shows that year but went to a ton of shows in the 71-73 period and can vouch that by 73 the sound was amazing. Remember the Dead's PA was used at the Watkins Glenn Summer Jam with the Dead, Allman Brothers and The Band. I believe that is when Ron came up with the first delay towers. I skipped Watkins Glenn since I had seen the Dead and Allmans at RFK Stadium in June and had tickets to see the Dead and The Band at Roosevelt Stadium 7/31 and 8/1. I seem to remember that The Band didn't care for playing through the Dead's PA.

The technology pioneered for the Wall of Sound was a direct influence on the technical development of the line arrays now used for concert sound. Currently camping in Alaska so it will be a couple of weeks until I see the book but looking forward to reading it.

74 was the first year I saw them as well, New Jersey late summer, (dang , 51 years ago )
https://liveforlivemusic.com/news/grateful-dead-oakland-6-8-1974/

[cozmik_cowboy]

The 74 Wall was the culmination of the evolution of the Dead's sound system.  I would characterize the  start as being late 71 when Healy came to see them and told them the sound was awful. Pretty sure Alembic's involvement (and Healy's) in the PA instead of the studio recordings started in 71-72. By the end of 73 most of what would become known as the Wall of Sound was already in use but stacking it behind the band and the vocal cluster were some of the last changes, though, there were small tweaks happening in 74, too. The first time the speakers were stacked behind the band was at the Boston Music Hall in late 73. They had accumulated so much gear that it would not fit the space unless stacked on platforms behind the band. That was also apparently when Bear knew the goal of having the PA and instrument stacks behind the band could work. Pictures of the PA from the 73 Boston show are pretty easy to find online.

I was traveling cross-country and camping with my Malamute Kimo in the summer of 74 and missed the shows that year but went to a ton of shows in the 71-73 period and can vouch that by 73 the sound was amazing. Remember the Dead's PA was used at the Watkins Glenn Summer Jam with the Dead, Allman Brothers and The Band. I believe that is when Ron came up with the first delay towers. I skipped Watkins Glenn since I had seen the Dead and Allmans at RFK Stadium in June and had tickets to see the Dead and The Band at Roosevelt Stadium 7/31 and 8/1. I seem to remember that The Band didn't care for playing through the Dead's PA.

The technology pioneered for the Wall of Sound was a direct influence on the technical development of the line arrays now used for concert sound. Currently camping in Alaska so it will be a couple of weeks until I see the book but looking forward to reading it.

Bear first suggested putting the PA behind the band in '69.  Healy's involvement did start that way, but dated to '67.
And I would suggest passing on this one.  Props where due, he did just refer to "Scully's fabulized and axe-grinding memoir" - but shortly thereafter credits the tie-dyed grill clothes to Florence "Rosie McGee" Nathan (every other source I've seen - including several band members - attributes them to Courtney Pollack), and he says the above-referenced Klipsch horns were driven by a Sansui amp; one system they rented in the '80s had Sansuis, but before that, from the start, they used McIntosh amps.
He just gets so much wrong; I may not even finish the book (and I could probably count the books I haven't finished in my life on one hand).

Peter (who does know that he could do better at keeping his inner history prof in check.......)

[David Houck]

... inner history prof .......

History is a good thing.  Reading, sharing, knowing.

Finished the Barlow book by the way.  Also history ... of a sort.

[mica]

Peter (who will read it anyway, figuring it can't be worse than Rock Scully's or Cindy Brightman"s turds)...
He just gets so much wrong; I may not even finish the book (and I could probably count the books I haven't finished in my life on one hand).

We received a copy from the author on Monday, and while I haven't read it completely, I have read some of the sections from his interviews with my parents, and stuff about Alembic.
There's numerous errors in the timelines for sure. Quite a few other things as well.
I'm thinking I could fill an entire volume with errata in Grateful Dead books just about Alembic.

[cozmik_cowboy]

After all my ranting, I find I now must correct myself; I can't say who used Klipsch with what band (I do recall they kept blowing), but Bear's stereo that became the Dead's first PA included Altec Voice Of The Theater speakers.

Boy, is my face red.  (But Jerry's mom still didn't buy the Dead Klipsch horns!)

Peter

[lbpesq]

Jerry’s mom bought him an accordion.

Bill, tgo