Change in sound - can't really figure out why

[Notachemist]

Odd title, and I apologize for sounding like an absolute novice (which I probably am), but since the last few days I have noticed my Alembic sounding a lot more bass and midrange dominant, compared to a week ago, and I'm struggling to figure out exactly why this happened, in the first place. First thought was the strings being the culprit, but they are Elixir Nanowebs, and they don't look worn, and still have that "twang" when digging in a bit, so I tried swapping out the 9V battery, but nothing changed. I have been trying to adjust the pickup height, but although I can dial in something thats a bit less midrange-dominant, the bass pickup still overpowers the treble pickup by a fair bit, even if i lower the bass pickup till the point where the two visible screws won't go further down, on the bass pickup. I could use the trim pots to adjust the gain, but before doing so, it would be nice to know what changed, since I'm at a bit of a loss here. I will add, that I also notice less fret noise, but measuring the relief shows that not much has changed in the last few months, so I assume that, at least in part, rules out seasonal changes affecting the neck relief.

Bass is a MKD with signature electronics, and I normally play with the pan split 50/50 between neck and bridge pickup. Panning between both pickups, does in fact indicate that the bass pickup is louder than the neck pickup, even with aforementioned adjustments.

Anyone who has experienced something similar, or have any advice, to point me in the right direction ?

Edit: Substitute the word "bass pickup" for bridge pickup.

[Spoilers!]

Sorry to ask a really obvious question here, but you didn't mention anything about the filters.  What do you notice if you open the filters all the way and then slowly turn them back down?  Does it seem like you're getting full treble content when they are wide open?

[Notachemist]

Sorry to ask a really obvious question here, but you didn't mention anything about the filters.  What do you notice if you open the filters all the way and then slowly turn them back down?  Does it seem like you're getting full treble content when they are wide open?

  A great question, and yes, the filters have been exercised around 50-60 times to no avail, and are fully open with both Q-switches enabled as well, but I stupidly forgot to mention it. Both of them have always been played wide open, but now, even with both of them wide open, I notice the lack of treble content. Dialing them down just seems to behave like the low pass filters usually operate.

[BeenDown139]

dunno if this helps.  i string my MKD with fresh roto rounds and run the filters wide open thru a bi-amped rig.  i generally beat the crud outta my strings fingerstyle when i play.  given the amount i've been playing lately (at least 2 hrs/day on non-band days, >3 hrs at rehearsal twice a week) they lose their edge after about a month.  i get similar results outta the SII which is also in the rotation except due to the hi-fi nature of that bass it gets noticible sooner.  boiling the strings helps.  except for the SII :-(
when i listen to playbacks from our band the sound of dulling  strings is pretty obvious even to my 69-year-old ears.  it gets boomy and indistinct.  it's not a mystery to me why the big leaguers change strings before every show.
so maybe try a fresh set of strings?  i go thru a lotta strings and every now and agin i get a loser.

cheers!

[Notachemist]

dunno if this helps.  i string my MKD with fresh roto rounds and run the filters wide open thru a bi-amped rig.  i generally beat the crud outta my strings fingerstyle when i play.  given the amount i've been playing lately (at least 2 hrs/day on non-band days, >3 hrs at rehearsal twice a week) they lose their edge after about a month.  i get similar results outta the SII which is also in the rotation except due to the hi-fi nature of that bass it gets noticible sooner.  boiling the strings helps.  except for the SII :-(
when i listen to playbacks from our band the sound of dulling  strings is pretty obvious even to my 69-year-old ears.  it gets boomy and indistinct.  it's not a mystery to me why the big leaguers change strings before every show.
so maybe try a fresh set of strings?  i go thru a lotta strings and every now and agin i get a loser.

cheers!

I also forgot to mention, that I play directly through a sound card through a DAW, but that sounds about normal for rotosounds, but I do find it odd if Elixir strings would go dull after a few months, since longevity is one of their main selling points, and it seems they can last for around half a year, on average, which to be honest, does sound a bit optimistic . I tried GHS Boomers, but they barely lasted half a month, before a significant decrease in tone, although I liked the feel and sound of them, fresh out of the box. Then again, boomy and indistinct is a good way of describing the change in sound I am experiencing, so maybe they are getting dull, after all. Not sure if dull strings translate into a reduction in fret noise, which I would assume is a sound, independent from the sound of the string.

[adriaan]

If you are playing through a DAW, are you perhaps listening through headphones? Mind the volume, ear fatigue is a thing (as is hearing damage, of course). On the other hand, can you test using a regular bass amp? Earwax build-up is another thing that presents itself as a loss of brightness.

[Notachemist]

If you are playing through a DAW, are you perhaps listening through headphones? Mind the volume, ear fatigue is a thing (as is hearing damage, of course). On the other hand, can you test using a regular bass amp? Earwax build-up is another thing that presents itself as a loss of brightness.

Yes I am playing through headphones, but I am being quite cautious in regards to volume. Perhaps it could be ear-wax buildup, but I doubt it, since there's nothing inbetween my two ears . I don't own an amp anymore, so no immediate chance of trying it out on another amplifier, sadly. The thing that caught my attention was not having played for a few days, and noticing the loss in clarity, pretty much immediately. First I was unsure if it was a problem with the electronics, since the strings look fine, but after having considered the matter of worn out strings, brought up by Beendown, it does sense that they might actually just be worn out, since they are about 3 months old, at this point - I might have had unrealistic expectations, in regards to string longevity. The loss in clarity just seemed very sudden and stark, but perhaps that usually happens with nickel-plated Elixir Nanoweb strings (it is, after all, my first time trying these strings). GHS Boomers just seemed to very gradually lose their top end, whereas these strings, if this theory proves to be true, just go from 100 to 5, all of a sudden, which seemed a bit odd to me.

[StephenR]

Your personal body chemistry can affect how quickly strings go dead. A friend of mine used to help luthier Jimmy D’Aquisto around his shop and when Jimmy finished an arch-top he would ask Marty to play it so he could better hear what it sounded like. Something in Marty’s body chemisrty would interact with the strings (most likley D’Addario)  and kill the tone of the new strings quickly, Jimmy commented about it every time. It may be that the Elixer Nanoweb strings don’t interact well with whatever natural oils your hands extrude. You could put a new set of Boomers on since they worked for you previously and see it the problem persists.

[mica]

Just to clear up some ambiguity for me, the bass pickup is the neck pickup, and the treble pickup is the bridge pickup. It sounds like you're saying the bridge pickup is louder than the neck pickup with this statement "bass pickup is louder than the neck pickup," and "Edit: Substitute the word "bass pickup" for bridge pickup"

Because what is expected is that the bass (neck) pickup to be louder than the treble (bridge) pickup, but with normal factory presets on the preamps we balance them to be about the same.

Anyway, please clear this up for me so I can think straight, thanks!

[Notachemist]

Just to clear up some ambiguity for me, the bass pickup is the neck pickup, and the treble pickup is the bridge pickup. It sounds like you're saying the bridge pickup is louder than the neck pickup with this statement "bass pickup is louder than the neck pickup," and "Edit: Substitute the word "bass pickup" for bridge pickup"

Because what is expected is that the bass (neck) pickup to be louder than the treble (bridge) pickup, but with normal factory presets on the preamps we balance them to be about the same.

Anyway, please clear this up for me so I can think straight, thanks!

  I understand how confusing it must be, in hindsight. When I mention the neck pickup, and I will try to be more precise here, I am talking about the pickup closest to the neck, and when talking about the "bass" pickup, I am indeed referring to the bridge pickup, as in the pickup closest to the bridge. I probably used these terms incorrectly, after having read your instructions on how you regarded the pan between neck and bridge pickup, as a choice between more treble or bass, when talking about signature electronics.

But what I am in fact experiencing, is that the bridge pickup is quite a bit more louder than the neck pickup, which I found to be a bit unusual. If I pluck an open D and pan from the neck towards the bridge pickup, the sound gets louder when fully panned towards the bridge pickup. And if I start with the pan split 50/50, and then pan the line on the knob fully towards the neck pickup (as in to the left, looking down from the top of bass, in seated position), the tone is quite trebly and "nasal", whereas panning it towards the bridge pickup, results in an almost overpowering bassy tone. I should note, that the bridge pickup is positioned higher than the neck pickup, as per instructions I found somewhere on this website. I am 99% certain that the trim pots on each preamp were both centered in the middle, while I was changing the 9v battery.

As I have discussed with other members in this thread, the strings might just be worn, but with them being nickel-alloy strings, I find it a bit peculiar that they suddenly went from sounding normally "Alembic-like", to being very midrange and "boomy and indistinct", out of pretty much nowhere - I wouldn't be surprised if they were stainless steel strings, since that seems to be common with that type of string.

If I am still being unclear, I apologize, and please let me know, so I can try to clarify anything that might be confusing.

[adriaan]

The trimpots are there so you can compensate for the relative output of both pickups at the physical height that you set them (which one typically does to make them sound hotter, or less hot) to the point where your balance pot lets you blend the two signals to your liiking. The trimpots are not meant for always sitting at the halfway point, unless that should happen to be what works for you. If the bridge pickup is too loud for your application, either turn up the neck trimpot, or turn down the bridge trimpot.

[JimmyJ]

As adraan said, there is no "standard" position for the trim pots.  They're meant to be a way to set the balance as you prefer for when your pan pot is centered.

That said, it's possible you have an issue with your neck channel.  Alembic gear is extremely robust but sometimes components do fail and that could be what has caused the change in your sound.

I say that because you describe the neck pickup (nearest the fingerboard) as being thin and hollow while the bridge pickup has a huge bass-heavy tone. Both pickups should have a huge sound!  The bridge pickup simply picks up more overtones which means it contains more high frequency info while the neck pickup reads more of the fundamental.

Can you test to be sure your pan pot is operating the way you think it is?  Pan all the way to one pickup and use paper clip or small screwdriver to tap on that pickup to be sure you are hearing the one you think you are hearing.

The next test would be to swap the pickup connectors in the electronics cavity.  If you do that the pan pot should work in reverse - but you could determine if the thin and hollow sound moves with the pickup or stays on the same side.  If you know what I mean. 

Keep testing and hopefully we can help you get to the bottom of it.

Jimmy J

[Notachemist]

So I have been doing some testing and listenting, and the results, so far, are interesting. I have an old Gallien & Krueger MB150 that didn't work properly for a long time, but after doing some research I managed to get it going again, by simply turning the gain and volume to 11 and then bonking it back into life. Since I normally play through headphones via. a USB audio interface, I am not able to make a completely surefire statement, but it did sound more like it's "former self", as in sounding more balanced and less boomy and indistinct.

Another interesting thing I discovered, is that when seated in playing position and panning between the bridge and neck pickup, gently tapping the pickups with a paper clip like Jimmy suggested, shows that panning to the left, away from the input jack, in playing position, means the bridge pickup is active, and panning to the right, towards the input jack, means the neck pickup is active - isn't it supposed to be the other way around? Also, I actually noticed that one of the Q-switches have been turned 45 degrees (?), meaning it operates horizontally, whereas the other Q-switch operates vertically (which, if I recall correctly, is how the good people at Alembic normally set it up to operate).

The paper clip trick did show that the neck pickup is in fact the loudest and most fundamentally sounding pickup, whereas the bridge pickup is the one that sounds more high-frequency dominant, which seems to be in accordance with how they usually operate.

So, now I am wondering if there is some sort of signal interference between the audio interface and the computer it's connected to. Sadly, the audio interface is so old (a Steinberg CI1 that I bought over 10 years ago), I cannot connect it to an isolated power outlet, like a wall socket, since it requires an ancient software driver, to even turn on.

The plot thickens...

[edwardofhuncote]

Ain't nuthin' quite so satisfying as turnin' sumthin' up to 11, givin' it a good bonkin'... and it works. I had a Crate amp like that... still got it.


*you can switch the pickup leads on your pan module so that the pan function is intuitively L/R as you, the player sees it... and while you're in there, straighten up that Q-switch. The nut takes a 5/16" wrench, IIRC.

[BeenDown139]

well we still haven't come up with a band name, but i think i found it here:

boomy and indisitinct

gonna run it up the flagpole at next rehearsal and see who salutes