Author Topic: 1x 12 cabs... (Read 819 times)

bassman10096 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 28, 2004, 08:40:47 PM »

Dave: Here are my impressions of the Acme vs Eden XST vs the Dr Bass 112 (3 way). First, let me tell you that, for my entire playing career (until this year), I've played through crap. So my ears are probably not as good at evaluating sound as others here.

As to high and mid detail, the Acme and Dr Bass stand above the Eden, for the reasons you'd expect. On this criterion, I like the Dr Bass a bit better than the Acme, partly because I like the high midrange sound out of the 6 in the Dr Bass more than the 5 in the Acme. The Dr. Bass has a more open, airier sound in the high-mid, where the Acme sounds a little too restrained to me. The tweeters are similar, but actually, the XST's tweet is the clearest of all - none are in the least bit harsh.

For low end, bear in mind I don't own a 5 string at this moment, so I can't speak to anything below E. The Acme and Eden sound similar - both go to the very bottom without breaking up or any unevenness. The Acme is little bit more solid at the same volume as the Eden, but drier sounding, where the Eden is more rounded and pleasant to my ears.

The Dr. Bass is loaded with an Eminence neomydium driver, making it the lightest of the 3 cabs at 44 lb (Eden is heaviest at 59 and the Acme weighs 50 lb.). The neo driver sounds much more open than the 10 pairs and I'd estimate the bottom (at similar volume and EQ) sounds a little less full than the bottom end on the Acme or Eden. However, with the bottom end tweaked up, the 12 is solid, does not break up on the low end (remember, it's a 4 string) and has a pleasant, rounded tone.

It may just be my taste, but I prefer the cleaner, more open sound of the 12, plus its added ability to project its full range over the 10s. Not everyone may share this bias. It's sort of like a super high quality 15, but with much more faithful tone production in the high-mid and none of the lag effect of the larger speaker.

The Eden is clearly more efficient than the Acme, but EQ's about the same. Both produce plenty of bass, but reaches the same volume at 11:30 that the Acme gets at about 12:30 on my power amp. The Dr. Bass sounds like it's operating at about the same efficency as the Eden.

I wish I could compare first hand to the Eden XLT, but don't have easy access to one.

Gary: The ELF processor is factory set for a low end of 18hz, but this is easily adjusted up or down by switching plug in resistors (BagEnd can furnish a PDF explaining and diagramming all you need). I'm planning to increase the cut off on mine to about 25hz, as recommended by the ELF Guide. That way, less amp power will go to nonmusical (ie low string-handling sound and rumble) sound, leaving better headroom.

The ELF cabs sound horrible without the processor. Keep in mind, the cab is a 3 cubic foot, sealed box.

I live pretty close to Uncle Bob's (my Eden came from there). I was actually planning to try out two ELF cabs with my rack to see if I'd have any power problems adding a second ELF 18. The last time I was in they had about 15 ELF 18s, including a rig they were selling for some guy with 10 ELF 18s, plus processor for $2,500 (that's $250 a cab, folks - anyone interested in forming a buying consortium?).

Bill

bob · « **Reply #31 on:** July 28, 2004, 09:35:11 PM »

Bill - if you ever get around to playing with the resistors, to limit the low end of your ELF 18, let me know how it goes. I don't really feel the need right now, but this thing does seem pretty thirsty to me, so I'm curious. But I do have a B string, so don't cut off too much, okay?

If I didn't already have one, I'd be tempted to join the consortium - but I'll also second your recommendation to not even think about using one of these cabs without the processor.

Maybe it's stated or implied here earlier, but how much power are you feeding this thing? Driving two of them seems a little optimistic (I hope so, I really don't need another one...)

David Houck · « **Reply #32 on:** July 28, 2004, 10:08:41 PM »

Bill; thanks for a very helpful and informative review!

bassman10096 · « **Reply #33 on:** July 29, 2004, 05:22:41 AM »

Bob: I'll be able to tell you how the resistor switch worked later today. I'm going to boost the cutoff to 25hz. Hopefully, that won't meaningfully impair any lows from a 5 string, either. I'm feeding the one cab 425w (@8ohm) from a QSC PLX 2402. The power amp is running wide open, and there is a slight tendency to clip at super high volume, but nothing I can't tweak to avoid (still with lots of clean output and high volume). I definitely share your observation that adding a second cab may push the limits. I've been considering an upgrade to a 3402. I'll know for sure if that's important to do once I test my current rig with the two cabs in the store.

What kind of non-Elf cab(s) are you running with your ELF sub? Does your processor have the crossover feature? If so, are you using it or just running the ELF as a freestanding sub?

You aren't possibly using an Alembic F1-X? If you are, I'd love to know which preamp outputs you are using and how you have the crossover set.

dela217 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 29, 2004, 05:45:05 AM »

I use a Bag End 2x10 for my main rig. I find it sounds GREAT in some environments. Some it sounds terrible. The box is rear ported, so placement is important. When I use it near a back wall I get wonderful low end. Everyone comments on the low end that comes from that small box. But when it is more freestanding, such as outside, no lows whatsoever. I would love to try out one of them Eden XST's. The specs are impressive. But I wonder how they compare sonically. As far as the power handling of the Bag End goes, It can take it. I sometimes have to run that 2X10 way too loud to keep up with horn sections or rude guitar players. No complaints there, just that sometimes no low end.

gare · « **Reply #35 on:** July 29, 2004, 06:17:31 AM »

Kayo and Bill..thx for the info,much appreciated.
My plan is to go to Bag End cabinets 2x10 + 1x18,when I saw those cab's I thought..hmmmm.. but couldn't find that much detailed information.
Thx for the review on the Dr Bass cab's too.
Sign me up for the consortium !
Gary

dadabass2001 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 29, 2004, 07:07:17 AM »

Bill,
Excellent report on the Acme, Dr Bass, Bag End comparison. I'm starting to feel like I need to order a Low B2 to replace my Goliath III Jr/ Crate 1- 15 set up. I'm playing small enough clubs to warrant just a single cab, plus everything runs out through the PA anyway. PB has had a good soundman for two years now, and I believe we understand each other on FOH tone and balance.
Mike

bob · « **Reply #37 on:** July 29, 2004, 10:21:18 AM »

Bill: my other cabinet is a D10B-D (deep red 2x10, no tweeter), and sorry, I'm not using an F1-X - an SF-2 is my preamp.

I started with the 2x10 after the Infra-M, but for several months now have been bypassing that and running it full range. That means there's more overlap from about 35 or 40 to 95 Hz than there should be, but that's not a bad place for a little extra output :-) and it actually sounds smoother to me than limiting it via the crossover. Some of that may have to do with my cabinet placements, filter settings, etc., but I had a sense that there was a bit of a dip at the crossover point (I was tempted to play with the resistors for that to overlap more, but never got to that either).

One of the things I like about this is that if I ever do get out of my living room, it would be easy to choose between taking one or two cabs. Also, I have things set up right now so that each channel of the SF-2 is dedicated to one cabinet/amp channel, which I'm finding interesting at the moment.
-Bob

kayo · « **Reply #38 on:** July 29, 2004, 10:23:18 AM »

Bill -

Wow, Uncle Bob's is where I ordered my custom Rogue! Do you live in Wisconsin or Illinois? They gave me a great deal - but it was all over the phone, I haven't been to the storefront. Did you get your Alembic there?

Depending on where you are at, the Bag End factory may not be too far from you - I wished I had taken the time to make it out there before I moved from Illinois to California.

bassman10096 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 29, 2004, 01:12:25 PM »

Kayo - No, I got my bass through BassCentral. Not because Uncle Bob's didn't offer a good deal (I know they do), but because Beaver (the only dealer I spoke to) offered me a deal and terms I knew I would not find again. Nothing mysterious about the deal Beaver made me - just superior price on almost the last day the special of the month would be in effect. I never looked back and have never been sorry.

The Uncle Bob's guys are great. Did you deal with Tyler? I stop in on my way home from work frequently (I live in Milwaukee) and have bought lots of stuff from them. I've promised them I'll talk to them first about the next Alembic I order.

BTW, Uncle Bob's is a guitar, bass, drums and PA equipment-focused music store with a great range of instruments and electronics. It's a long time family business. They are very traditional (think pipe rack) about their merchandising - not a showroom (sort of an anti-Guitar Center). They stock lots of interesting stuff - definitely the best music outlet in Milwaukee.

The Bag End factory is about 40 min down the road from me in Northern IL. About 6 weeks ago, I heard Brother Mike's Grateful Dead tribute band play in a restaurant right across the street from Bag End. I'm sure I'll get down to say hello to the folks who have been helping me with my ELF.

Bill

kayo · « **Reply #40 on:** July 29, 2004, 01:36:50 PM »

Bill

oh ok - I got you..... I've heard nothing but good things about Beaver and BassCentral. I do a lot of business with Music Center in Kenosha - have you checked them out? On about 80% of my big ticket gear (digital recording gear, compressors, my Bag End and Eden WT800 and the like)they have been able to beat everyone else's price - and it doesn't hurt that I don't have to pay tax since I'm out of state.

Thanks for all the feedback - take care