Ampless w/ F-1X

[Stevorino]

My band recently converted to in-ears and for our last gig I tried going ampless with a signal chain of:

Lakland Active Bass >> Empress Compressor (very light compression) >> F-1X >> Mixer (Midas M18)  >> Westone UM Pro 50 In-Ears

Everyone I spoke to in the crowd thought it sounded wonderful, but in my in-ears I wasn't pleased at all with the sound as compared to my normal amp rig (Aguilar AG 700 & 4x10).

Maybe I just need to get used to in-ear sound, but I'd love to hear from anyone else who has used the F-1X in an ampless environment before to see if it's enough on it's own or if I need to add something more before I start experimenting further.

Thanks!

[jazzyvee]

Hi Stevorino, I have been using my F-1x into my band's IEM system. Initially I just had the F-1x into the mixer and then got the in ears back and was not getting enough bottom end. (i do mainly reggae). After a few gigs and rehearsals I had to dial in my SF-2 in order to get me tone and bottom end I wanted to hear. However something was still missing. In the end I took a chance and bought a Porter & Davies KT Platform https://www.porteranddavies.co.uk/shop/kt-concert-platform-tt6-equipped/
It gets sound to your ears using bone conduction.
Since I use stereo power amp in my rack I was able to take a monitor feed from the IEM rack unit into one of my power amp channels and plug the KT Platform into the power amp output and that filled the sound up much more. I choose to have the whole band mix come through the platform rather than just my bass.

[Stevorino]

This is so helpful - thank you for the thoughtful reply!

I hope these questions aren't too much

For this past gig I used the Backbeat, but I'll admit it I didn't feel it as much as I thought I would once I was up and moving.  At home it works great.  Have you had any experience comparing that to the KT Platform?

How much have you enjoyed the SF-2?  I did some very light tone shaping with a low pass through the mixing board (Midas M18)... I have to assume that SF-2 just takes that to the next level?  Do you get other tone enhancement beyond EQ from it?

And what are you getting from the stereo power amp in the rack?  Is that in your chain to FOH or are you just using that to help send feed to the KT Platform?

Thanks again!

[jazzyvee]

Hi, I have never used a backbeat but i didn't think it would give me an immersive feeling of a bass cab.
The SF-2 was something i bought back in the early 2000's and used it in the send/return loop of my Mesa Walkabout head. For my needs the SF-2 is an essential as gigging music where i need a heavy bottom end content it gives me more control of that and i use it in a subtle way. I don't think i have any need for any more tone enhancement than the bass, F-1x and SF-2 and it is in the signal path for the DI to the desk.

I use a rack system for my bass head with the F-1x and SF2 and a stereo power amp. At the moment i am just using it to power my KT platform when I am using IEM, otherwise it is used for powering my cab(s).


The only mistake i made with the KT Platform is that I bought the larger one which weighs a ton and i think i would have preferred the smaller one.

[Stevorino]

This truly is so helpful - thank you so much again for your replies!

[hieronymous]

Hey Stevorino, I think we have been talking on Reddit - thought I should disclose that I am definitely in the Alembic camp, and what better place to do that than here?!

One question I have is: do you have a lot of experience with in-ears? I just got my first pair (Shure SE215) and have only used them at home. I definitely think it would take some getting used to playing with only in-ears in a full band situation, and even more so live!*

Have you tried just your Lakland eq in the in-ear setup? Is there something lacking? An Alembic preamp like the F-1X might not be the "sauce" you need for your in-ears. Or maybe EQ from your bass and drive the F-1X a bit? That might produce some "tube magic."

The Alembic filter is a major part of the Alembic magic, and that isn't found in the preamps. The Alembic filter is so musical and natural - of course you can dial up extreme sounds, but to me its strength lies in its ability to let the sound of the instrument come out, even with darker settings. You can dial up the right amount of fret clank, or get a thick, even dubby, sound - not necessarily expected from an Alembic, but totally within the world-view of the Alembic sound-world...

* I realized that I need to start getting some experience in the IEM world since that's where a lot of bands are going - it's the way of the future in many ways. I feel like I have gotten satisfactory results with them, but maybe time to hook'em up and test them again (I normally use audio-technica ATH-M50x) - I would hook up the F-2B but that will have to wait until after this weekend - I will be using the JHS Punchline I mentioned on Reddit (I think) for a performance this Sunday and need to keep things consistent.

[Stevorino]

LOL I would say 'what a small world' but there's only so many places to talk about this stuff online

You are spot on: My in-ears experience is relatively limited.... ~5 gigs ampless, and only the most recent one with the F-1X.  Before that it was with a Rupert Neve DI, which I felt was a little more favorable, but not by much..... and the RNDI experiences were with a different/better band, so hard to compare. 

Before the last 5 gigs, I mostly played through my Aguilar Amp/Cab, which I love, and practice with at home.

At the very least you have inspired me to play around with in-ears at home more with the Lakland only, and then adding in the F-1X to see what it does.

I do think you are hitting on the core issue of the in-ear experience being the issue here.  Through an amp I love my sound... through in-ears it sounds fine, but doesn't uplift and inspire me the same way.

[hieronymous]

So I did hook up my "traditional" rig consisting of CAE/CAJ V-Comp tube compressor and F-2B (just one channel). Recorded a couple of things. Obviously the bass itself has a lot to do with it - I'm using my AlFeMbic - Fender Japan P-Bass with PJ Activators and newly installed Moses graphite neck.

The first is slap (Spin Doctors):

Not a valid youtube URL
The next is finger style (Gong):

Not sure of the exact settings on the first, but the fingers one was Bass 6 Mid 4 Treble 3. I think the first was similar but with treble much higher and also filter on the bass much more open. My favorite part is the low end it puts out. It sounds great in headphones to me! Might be too much for the mixing board? But that would depend on the sound man and the system.

Have you been experimenting with your rig? I used my Shure in-ears with my iPhone on a plane flight this weekend - was ok but would prefer to be able to eq more - I personally think the deficiencies are in the iPhone as a preamp.

[hieronymous]

Sorry, did the wrong link for the first one - this is the slap one:

[jazzyvee]

Nice Slapping Harry!!!

[hieronymous]

Nice Slapping Harry!!!

Thanks! It's been fun getting back into it, and knowing what I know now...

[pauldo]