going direct?

[BeenDown139]

ok so i auditioned and won the bass slot with an established, well equipped cover band.  these guys run everything thru the board.  IEMs for stage.  no amps.  guit@r player informed me he hasn't used his amp in 4 years of gigging with these guys.  he had a hi-tech pedalboard.  i've never gone ampless before although i've practised thru headphones when i had to.  my MKD went thru a DI box into the board, everyone had headphones.  my sound was about what you'd expect from pluggin a bass into a mic input.  it sounded like i was working a baratone whoopie cushion.  overdriven. thin.  crappy.

so my question is - shouldn't i have some compression and other processing before i go into the board?  i've got a 5-string and i especially like pounding on the B-string.  i gotta pop the D & G strings for these songs.  a lot.  the B and E strings sound especially horrible.  their sound guy was a tenderfoot.  i dunno what their last bass player did.  i might as well been playing a squier (*GASP*).  surely this is a well-trod path on this board.  anybody got suggestions how i can solve this issue?  TIA.

[lbpesq]

Perhaps going through a pedal amp first, like a Tech 21 Sans Amp, would give you more control of your tone.   I’m sure there are other alternatives that the folks around here will suggest, but the concept is the same.   I’ll bet you the guitar player is using something like that and not going straight into the PA.

Bill, tgo

[jazzyvee]

I've had to deal with playing in a couple of bands in the last couple of years who are all IEM. Generally, i still take my bass head which is a rack housed F-1X, SF-2 and power amp. I give the PA the DI (Pre) out the F-1x which includes the SF-2 settings and I get a line out feed back from the IEM system which has the whole band mix that goes into my power amp input and the power amp goes into a Porter & Davies Bass Platform which gives you a much fuller sound that you can feel

https://www.porteranddavies.co.uk/product-category/kt-platforms/

My travelling light setup is just a Stanley Clarke Acoustic Preamp pedal which I plug into and send the DI out to the IEM system.

[BeenDown139]

Generally, i still take my bass head which is a r...

thankx for the tip, jazzy!
i had my half stack in the trunk (boot for y'all across hte pond  ).  after about 30 minutes of jacking around trying to get sound (plus all hte usual chaff ya get when your instrument won't work: maybe ya need a new battery.  is your cord any good?  is your volume up?  etc & so forth) i suggested i bring in my amp but i was shot down.  i guess maybe what i shoulda done (and will do next time) was grab the MB head and go from that into the board.  it's FOH-friendly and has all the outputs ya need.
but i was a little flummoxed - had to learn 7 pretty tuff songs in a week.  walked into a completely unknown situation.  but they liked my bass.  and its custodian.  so i guess it's all good for now.

[gearhed289]

I've gone ampless live a handful of times, but even when I'm using in-ears, I like to have an amp. Old dog... My DI of choice is the Tech 21 VT Bass. It's an Ampeg in a box. All analog, and incredibly convincing. I know that's not what some people are into. For a more "neutral" sound, I use a Radial J48. No need for compression or any kind of attenuation in front of it. It sounds to me like the sound guy had the input gain turned up too high for you.

[Songdog]

it sounded like i was working a baratone whoopie cushion.  overdriven. thin.  crappy.

so my question is - shouldn't i have some compression and other processing before i go into the board?  i've got a 5-string and i especially like pounding on the B-string.  i gotta pop the D & G strings for these songs.  a lot.  the B and E strings sound especially horrible.  their sound guy was a tenderfoot.  i dunno what their last bass player did.  i might as well been playing a squier (*GASP*).  surely this is a well-trod path on this board.  anybody got suggestions how i can solve this issue?  TIA.

What are the IEMs? Can they reproduce bass adequately? Try playing an MP3 of a song the band does through the monitor system, does it sound good? What was the DI?

I've been in a couple studios recording my Alembic bass direct to the board and monitoring through headphones - it was the opposite of "overdriven, thin, crappy." You shouldn't need any other processing.

I suspect that the "tenderfoot" sound guy needed some gentle guidance on gain structure. Your description of "overdriven" suggests to me that somewhere between your bass and the IEMs something was turned up too much and something after that was turned down to compensate.

[BeenDown139]

What are the IEMs?

it's headphones for rehearsal, IEMs for stage.  dunno the product mix, i'll find out. i can tell ya everyone sounded good except for me :-(

I suspect that the "tenderfoot" sound guy needed some gentle guidance on gain structure...

i know just enough about sound reenforcement to be dangerous, but i do know what clipping sounds like.  there was a lotta back and forth between the band leader (board owner) and sound guy about gains.  i had headphones on so i didn't catch it all.  but i'm pretty sure something in hte signal chain downstream from me was outta whack.  they're gonna hafta track it down.

i'm the new guy, i just wanna play bass and sound good.  however, i'm not going on stage with crappy sound (unless i'm playing a crappy bass.  which i don't own.) so we're gonna hafta resolve this one way or the other before we play a show.  everyone except me had an ipad to set their headphone (monitor) mix.  drum kit is electronic. i got a learning curve to climb, apparently.
i got a 14-song set to learn for next rehearsal. i think i'm gonna focus on that and use the mighty MB head for my front end next time.  maybe plug headphones into that and get everyone else in the AUX input for my mix.  i dunno.  we'll see what happens after that.

[gtrguy]

My cranky geezer 2 cents worth:

Get a small bass amp with a direct out built in. Tell them the amp is just for your stage monitor. Let the sound person use your direct out and tell him what you want to be hearing. If it still ain't happening, try to show him what you want. Failing that, walk.

Personally, I don't like In ear stuff only. Plus they have no business with a poor sound person running that rig. You won't be happy with they way things are going, trust me.

[garyhead]

Maybe find out why the previous bassist left?  Was it due to crappy sound from the sound guy?

[StephenR]

Tim... bring your MB head next time, you need control over the sound you send to the board. If your head has a headphone jack you can experiment with dialing in the tone at home then tweak at rehearsal if needed. Gain structure is always an issue, if gain from the the DI send of the MB is adjustable it will give you some control independent of the guy running the board and headphone feed. Good luck!

[pauldo]

Plus 1 on the Tech 21 Sans Amp.  Small and versatile. 

Maybe asking the sound person if they worked with a bass that has active electronics before.   Then casually mention that typically your sonic experience has a crisper, cleaner bass sound….

Good luck.   New band members can be interesting to navigate with.

[BeenDown139]

thanks for the tips.  i think for next rehearsal i'll go wtih the MB head as front end and see hwat happens.  i havenb't been given a time for next practice, only a list of 14 songs of varying difficulty to learn for next time.  i think they're still tyrying to come up with a permanent singer and guit@r player so i got a little time to get myself together.

i did a quick search for tech 21 vt bass.  looks like about $250 new USD at GC, a little less used:

https://reverb.com/item/84119214-tech-21-sansamp-character-series-vt-bass-v1-2010s-graphic

sure wouldn't mind not having to schlep an amp around so i hope it works out.

i don't think these guys are used to dealing with a bass player like me.  i got a lotta $ USD tied up in my gear.  my tone and my chops are my calling card.  not gonna compromise that even if i have to get up and play "sweet home alabama" (did i say i'm in a cover band?  well i am.).  kinda wondering what woulda happened if i'd have showed up with my SII and DS-5 in hand.  next practice i won't have to worry about making the team, so we can focus on getting my sound right.  maybe get a handle on how their other bass players managed.  definitely not this band's first rodeo, here's the web site with the old line-up:

https://www.onemoretyme.com/

[cozmik_cowboy]

New band members can be interesting to navigate with.

Some years back i ran into a bassist of my acquaintance (hired me to do sound for 3 bands) who I hadn't seen in a while; of course, I asked what his current project was.  He said he was just recording alone with his Portastudio®.  Said the bad thing about that was there were no other musicians around - and the good thing was that there were no other musicians around.....

Peter

[BeenDown139]

and the good thing was that there were no other musicians around.....

a fitting way to tie this up.  i called the band leader saturday to take his pulse and make sure i got the set list right and he informs me that their old bass player called and wants back in the band and yadda, yadda, yadda.
i was a little stung (it was all smiles and handshakes after the audition) but i look at the bright side - it was gonna be a 25-mile crosstown drive thru denver's interstates at rush hour to rehearsal.  plus i don't hafta learn "sweet home alabama" or "rocky mountian way".  pretty sure my sound was gonna be a constant issue anyways.

just got a call from a jazz band leader, he wants to meet me for coffee. he's looking for an upright player but he's willing to give me a shot on fretless.  another direct in situation.  so we may revisit this.  again.  and again.