Question about using Series 1 pickup without the humcanceller

[Picure]

Is it considered necessary to use the Series 1pickups with the hum cancellers? I have a pair of 1980’s S1 pickups without the hum canceller thats just sitting around unused. Thinking of using it on another bass someday. 😆

[edwardofhuncote]

The short answer is yes, Jack. If it wasn't destroyed in the upgrade/replacement, I will give you the one from 80-1684... it's practically the twin-sister to your bass, at least numerically. I'll have to ask about it. Chances are, it met the same fate as your humcanceller.


Even if you could find one, I think you'd still need some way to power them up without the Series electronics. There is probably some way to do it, but I'd be the last goofball on this spinning ball of molten iron to know how.

[flavofive]

It's just a passive pickup, so technically no, it doesn't need the humcanceller to work, nor does it need external power.  I have tried going completely direct from a Series pickup to an amp before.  It definitely works.  It's just not necessarily ideal, because it's not designed to be used without the Series electronics.  Specifically:
- It is designed as a low-impedance / low-output pickup, so it has somewhat lower output than a more "typical" pickup.
- It's a single-coil pickup, so it will definitely pick up noise, just like any other single-coil pickups.  Maybe even more noise (proportionally), since the output from the strings is lower.

There are good reasons why the Series pickups are designed this way - the Series electronics are specifically designed to eliminate these problems, while keeping the benefits.  But CAN you use a Series pickup by itself?  Sure.

[lbpesq]

And you can make a humcanceller by carefully removing the magnetic poles from a single coil pickup.

Bill, tgo

[KR]

Interesting. Using the homemade cancellor...would this involve just connecting the hot leads of the cancellor and the pickup together; the same for the ground, and then connecting these joined leads to the typical lugs on the pot? Could both pickups share the same cancellor in this scenario? 

[Picure]

The short answer is yes, Jack. If it wasn't destroyed in the upgrade/replacement, I will give you the one from 80-1684... it's practically the twin-sister to your bass, at least numerically. I'll have to ask about it. Chances are, it met the same fate as your humcanceller.


Even if you could find one, I think you'd still need some way to power them up without the Series electronics. There is probably some way to do it, but I'd be the last goofball on this spinning ball of molten iron to know how.

My hum canceller got destroyed by me when I tried changing the pickups by myself here in Taiwan (I had to drill a screw into it and pull it out as per Alembic’s “final resort” S.O.P 🥲).

I had no idea our basses were sisters! 😆

[Picure]

It's just a passive pickup, so technically no, it doesn't need the humcanceller to work, nor does it need external power.  I have tried going completely direct from a Series pickup to an amp before.  It definitely works.  It's just not necessarily ideal, because it's not designed to be used without the Series electronics.  Specifically:
- It is designed as a low-impedance / low-output pickup, so it has somewhat lower output than a more "typical" pickup.
- It's a single-coil pickup, so it will definitely pick up noise, just like any other single-coil pickups.  Maybe even more noise (proportionally), since the output from the strings is lower.

There are good reasons why the Series pickups are designed this way - the Series electronics are specifically designed to eliminate these problems, while keeping the benefits.  But CAN you use a Series pickup by itself?  Sure.

Thanks for your technical input (again 😆)!

Yea, I guess it’s best to pair it with the electronics. Maybe one day I can purchase just the Series electronics (if possible) and build a bass here in Taiwan 😆

[edwardofhuncote]

80-1684, with her new pickups and electronics. Unfortunately, still has a couple issues to be sorted out. Nevertheless, a very near-neighbor to your bass, on the other side of the Earth. 


I didn't think to ask if the original humcanceller was saved, but it was clearly replaced. If they still have it, it's yours.

[Songdog]

Interesting. Using the homemade cancellor...would this involve just connecting the hot leads of the cancellor and the pickup together; the same for the ground, and then connecting these joined leads to the typical lugs on the pot? Could both pickups share the same cancellor in this scenario?

It's a little more complicated than that. The hum canceller needs individual trim controls to balance it with each pickup; you'll need some sort of active gain stage for each pickup and the canceller because each might have a different signal level. If you spend a little time with your favorite web search engine you can probably find a PF-6 schematic out there somewhere to illustrate this 

[flavofive]

I agree that the Alembic Series electronics do provide a lot more control over "mixing" the humcanceller with the pickups, individually.

Regarding KR's original question - I haven't worked with humcancellers (aka "dummy coils") on my own before, but my understanding is that yes, it CAN be as simple as just wiring up a dummy coil in series with the pickup.  The windings in the dummy coil should ideally be the same characteristics  as the pickup (e.g. # of winds, resistance, impedance), but wound in reverse (or just swap the leads) and of course omit the magnet(s).  It also needs to point the same direction as the pickup.
People have modded Strats like this as a simple mod, and Strats don't have any of the complex active circuitry of Series instruments, so yes it does work - here's an example with a wiring diagram, and some explanation:  https://www.frettech.com/frettech/dummy/index.html#:~:text=connect%20the%20leads%20coming%20out,dummy%20coils%20are%20directionally%20sensitive.

I have seen some other instruments with simple dummy coils like this as well.

But as Songdog noted, it gets a bit more complicated if you're trying to use it when multiple pickups are selected, especially when there are also active electronics that allow the gain to be set individually for each pickup - like on a Series instrument.  I assume that is the reason why the circuitry for the humcanceller on Series instruments is much more complex.

If you're just pairing a single pickup with a dummy coil, though, I believe it should work as long as the dummy coil meets the criteria above.
Side note, as the article I linked above points out, there will almost certainly be some minor treble loss, even if you match the characteristics perfectly.  I recall reading an article that explained the full theory behind dummy coils / humcancellers, and it explained that it is literally impossible to avoid at least a tiny amount of impact to the tone.  But if it's designed well, it may be so little that you realistically won't notice it.  And it can be significantly better than if you replaced it with a humbucker.

[KR]

Thanks for the info. I saw that James Tyler put a system in some guitars, too. Maybe John Suhr did as well.

[Picure]

80-1684, with her new pickups and electronics. Unfortunately, still has a couple issues to be sorted out. Nevertheless, a very near-neighbor to your bass, on the other side of the Earth. 


I didn't think to ask if the original humcanceller was saved, but it was clearly replaced. If they still have it, it's yours.

Wow! Thanks a bunch! Ill definitely let you know if I need it in the long run. I’ll buy it off you 👍.