Author Topic: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb  (Read 504 times)

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2694
Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« on: January 22, 2024, 04:40:45 PM »

lbpesq

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10683
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2024, 07:45:02 PM »
It’s missing a pickup, replaced by an EMG.  How well this integrates with the Alembic-like electronics is anybody’s guess.   Also, the Fernandes power supply has problems, but it does come with an Alembic DS5.  $3K seems a bit steep to me, but these don’t come up often. 

It blows me away to think that I paid less than the asking price of the Fernandes for my ‘76 Series 1 MSG, though it was 18 years ago!

https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8376.0

Bill, tgo

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2024, 01:24:06 PM »
Yeah, the price does seem high. Also, the ferbic power supply is 9v and an Alembic one is twice that, which does work, but is at the top end of what the ferbic components want to see.

Jon Kon

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2024, 04:37:22 PM »
How hard would it be to find a correct-ish neck pickup?

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2024, 06:22:04 PM »
You could try a search in japan for them and -might- just get lucky. I have found odd pickups at TC Gakki before too. Beyond that, I think it would be very hard.

flavofive

  • club
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 118
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2024, 10:12:47 AM »
I had this exact situation.  I bought a FAG-170 that had a dead pickup, and I had no luck finding anything that could accurately replace it.
It's a custom pickup shape, and has the unusual low-impedance/low-output design of Alembic Series pickups.  So as far as I'm aware, the only ways to replace it accurately are:

1) Find an original pickup being sold separately.  In ~20 years of monitoring eBay and Reverb for these instruments, I don't think I have ever seen one come up for sale.  Maybe this is more likely in Japan, but it seems like it would be very difficult to find.  You could ask around in forums if anyone has an FAG-170 and they would be willing to sell you one of the pickups, but these guitars are so rare to begin with, it's probably going to be difficult to find anyone who even owns one, much less is willing to sell one of the original pickups.

2) Buy an Alembic SC-1 Series guitar pickup directly from Alembic.  I don't know this for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fernandes copied the Series guitar pickups exactly, and they sound identical to me (I own both), so this would potentially be the best option - with one caveat.  I contacted Alembic about this for my FAG-170 guitar, and the good news is that yes, they will sell it (it's not cheap, but not astronomically expensive), but the bad news is that Mica confirmed that the dimensions changed at some point.  A new SC-1 won't exactly match the dimensions of a FAG-170 pickup.  I'm not sure how they're different, but you may need to do some adjustment of the screw holes, and possibly even some minor routing - or there might be some minor gaps.

3) Create a custom replica pickup.


#2 realistically may be the easiest option.

However, I did #3.  This may be more trouble than most people want to go through, but I wanted to fully restore my guitar, and I wanted the dimensions to be perfect.  I created the pickup housing, to match the exact dimensions of the original, and Revel Pickups assembled the bobbin and windings to match the exact impedance of the original.  If you're interested in the details, I posted about it here (see 1/18/24 post): 
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/fernandes-fab-180-pickup-replacement.1606011/page-2#post-28128022
It works great, and looks and sounds exactly like the FAG-170's other pickup, which still works.

For the guitar in this listing, though - one minor issue is that it doesn't include the original pickup.  (Argh, why would anyone throw it away??)  I was able to dig out the magnet from the original dead pickup, and use it in my new one.
To be clear - there's nothing "special" about it, it's literally just a ceramic bar magnet.  They're cheap and easy to find.  But the only issue is that I couldn't find a new one that had the EXACT same dimensions.
Honestly, though, you can buy ones that are very close, and I doubt it would make a significant difference to the tone, so maybe it's no big deal.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 10:16:25 AM by flavofive »

Spoilers!

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2024, 02:26:58 PM »
I don't see a DS-5 mentioned in the listing, just the Fernandes "PS-5".  I did buy a DS-5 from this seller about a month ago.  He was great to deal with.  That DS-5 is on the way back to the Mothership for a 110v transformer and US power chord.

If I didn't have the custom fretless in the works right now I would be very tempted to jump on this guitar.  It seems like all the used Alembic six strings for sale recently have been 25.5" scale, but I'm finding my preferences changing to 24.75" over the past couple of years.

Ken

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2024, 03:55:59 PM »
I notice that the ad does not say that the original pickup and circuit actually works. I would want to be sure of that. The board is kinda complex compared to a normal guitar.

flavofive

  • club
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 118
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2024, 10:30:22 AM »
YES, highly recommend checking this too, before purchasing!
As someone who has repaired a few electronics issues on my own Fernandes FAB-170 and FAG-170, I would say that if you intend to keep the original sound/controls, make sure that the original electronics are at least still there - and ideally 100% working.
If the original board has been removed, it's going to be a big project to DIY a new one from scratch.  As David/gtrguy showed, the original is a specifically-fabricated PCB.  It's definitely possible to design and build a new one, but it would take some decent skill with circuit design and soldering.
It's not a Precision bass circuit, that's for sure!!

Rather, it is a nearly-100% clone of the Series 1 circuit, so it is equally as complicated.
The upside is that nearly all of the resources available here on the Alembic Club also apply to these Fernandes instruments, so that helps.  For example, the pin assignments of the 5-pin XLR, the component values, etc.
Also, there are very few rare/hard-to-find components.  Nearly all of the parts are easy to replace, even 40 years later, so maintenance is not that hard if you know what you're doing.

But if you don't have experience with electronics, or you'd rather not pay someone else who is pretty good with electronics, I would caution everyone here that one downside of the Fernandes instruments vs. Alembic is that the wiring is super-thin, and DELICATE.  You need to be careful even opening the control cavity in my FAB-170 or FAG-170.  If you pull too hard on the wires, one of them may disconnect from a solder joint.  These instruments were clearly not intended to be regularly opened and messed with.  If/when something disconnects, it's going to need to go into the shop for troubleshooting and repair, unless you can maintain it yourself.
I don't mind it much myself because I kind of enjoy soldering and tinkering personally, and it's worth it to me for these super-rare instruments.  But just be aware that it's a risk. 

Credit to Alembic - I'm much more confident opening up my Series 1s.  Although of course it's always best to keep it to a minimum!

Also, I'm always happy to share the FAB/FAG wiring diagram I traced out, if anyone needs it!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 10:35:36 AM by flavofive »

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2024, 02:55:19 PM »
People on here are so helpful!! It's great!

Yarr

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2024, 11:19:50 AM »
Just noticed it's down to approx 1400. If it was in the EU I'd probably go for it. Neck pickup is already ruined which allows for guilt-free sustainer installation.

Jon Kon

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2024, 05:26:52 PM »
Just noticed it's down to approx 1400. If it was in the EU I'd probably go for it. Neck pickup is already ruined which allows for guilt-free sustainer installation.

How would that work and what sustainer would you recommend?

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2024, 10:04:52 AM »
If someone on here buys it, I would be very interested in buying the power supply.

Yarr

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Fernandes FAG-170 on reverb
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2024, 05:04:10 PM »
How would that work and what sustainer would you recommend?

Sustaniac or Fernandes. Sustainiac is original inventors, usually I would say Sustainiac, but in this case copycat Fernandes would be absolutely appropriate. Whatever is easier to get at correct size with correct mounting options (you don't want a board with pots and switches soldered in forever). Get a single-size one that also works as a pickup (some of them might be "drivers" only without output of their own). Put a push-pull in neck tone - this is sustainer on/off. Neck Q switch becomes a sustainer mode switch (normal/harmonic). Wire it in stereo, use the original bridge output for the core/meat of your sound, use neck for to give infinite sustain to your main bridge pickup, and its own neck sound to support the bridge with additional coloring/effects. Some additional routing might be required with the sustainer board and batteries, but guilt-free is guilt-free.

This is how I would do it if pressed at gunpoint right now, but I am no huge expert on electronics, I would consult with a specialist for a perspective on feasibility of the following: using neck 3-pos switch as a 3-pos sustainer off/on/harmonics, making a new power supply to drive all circuits inside and save on sustainer battery space, possibility of mono mode with blend.

Top it off with a pickup cover made to match original pickup.

If someone on here buys it, I would be very interested in buying the power supply.

I mean I want it, and I would probably mod it for either batteries or a sustainer (which would require additional power and probably another supply) but the seller won't ship to EU at all. If you want, I'd be happy to pool on this one if you'd be willing to buy it (happy to front my share to you for the purchase) and hold on to it for a few months, and then forward it to me in the EU, or to someone in the US. I have some friends and extended family there and it's not implausible that someone will be visiting EU and will be able to bring it along. The Power supply would be yours to do with as you please as soon as you get your hands on it. If you're into long plays and have a little extra storage we can make it work.