DS 5 Power Supply or mixer option?

[Stan Mansfield]

Here in UK after getting my series 1 bass I see it's gonna be hard to obtain a DS 5 power supply. However, using batteries in the bass and a small mixer I see both pick ups function and then from 1 mixer output into my amp gives me a result. The lead into the bass is stereo and then split to 2 mono's into 2 separate channels on the mixer. Is this the same result as with the DS 5?

[jazzyvee]

Getting a DS-5 is not that difficult. They come up failrly often on ebay and reverb though more often the seller is not in the UK.
Your method would work but unfortunately the series basses eat batteries really quickly. I think around 20 hrs. The DS5 powers the bass at 36v dc so the bass is always running at optimum power.
They are easy to order direct from Alembic in small or rack size also there are wiring diagrams on the forum if you are handy enough with a soldering iron to build a DIY power supply.

[Stan Mansfield]

Thanks Jazzyvee, didnt know about the 36v. I'm currently using rechargeables so not too concerned and only gigs 2 per month! Does the 36v change the sound at all? I've ordered a Behringer MX400 Micromix, only £20 for the moment but will check the prices of the DS 5 from manu.

[Stan Mansfield]

Also, cannot find any sign of the DS 5 power supply to order on here? From Alembic.

[flavofive]

Hi Stan, based on knowledge of the Series 1 circuit schematic, the voltage really should not change the sound.  It only raises/lowers the maximum possible output level.

For reference:
- On batteries, you get a total of 18V from two 9V batteries.
- My DS-5 actually produces a total of 42.1V from my measurement, but there might be some slight differences between different units.  The exact number doesn't make a huge difference though.

If you are using batteries, and you turn up the gain and/or volume to more than the 18V can handle, I think it's possible that you might get some output clipping (distortion).  It's been a long time since I tried, so I can't remember if this is even possible, but I think you can get some clipping if you really max out the gain on the internal trimpots and use it with batteries only.

It should be pretty obvious that this is happening, though.  If you keep the gain down to within a more "normal" range, I can't think of any reason why there would be a difference in the sound between batteries and power supply.
Mine can get plenty loud on batteries only, and the actual volume difference between an 18V supply voltage and 42.1V is less than you might think, due to many other factors.  So I personally feel like batteries are fine sound-wise, it's just a pain (and not very eco-friendly ) to go through so many of them.

Good luck!

[flavofive]

I meant to add - the DS-5 price is listed here:  http://alembic.com/prod/prices.html

Another option instead of buying one - Alembic themselves have very kindly made the schematic for the DS-5 available here in the Club previously.  Here's one link:  http://alembic.com/club/messages/394/135762.html?1343236151
If you're pretty good with electronics, you can build your own; it's not TOO complicated.  I own a DS-5, but I also built one myself for a separate bass that was missing it.

[rv_bass]

From what I understand, the DS-5 is on back order currently due to shortage of available parts.  The schematic could come in handy, thanks.

[Stan Mansfield]

Thanks flavofive / rv_bass ..... the price to order is very heavy? for the DS 5 and cable around $1350!  £1000! Why so much? Then the shipping. So batteries it is/rechargeable. Unless I find one on ebay UK! My little MX400 micro mixer is on the way £20 so I will go this route to introduce the treble pickup.. I looked at the wiring diagram thanks and will send to my techy electric friend and see what he makes of it. There have been comments on the tones of my bass (S1 77 744) from previous owners about the low mid sound from the cherry wood? Maybe with the treble pick up functioning this will improve. However I have put a new patch on my B6 with EQ and found the culprit freq. and eliminated it. Great explanation of the gains with or without batteries thanks flavofive, makes sense and I do have tons of volume even with half gain. On a previous post a previous owner had this bass rewired too. 2017 I think. Thanks again all.

[Jonny]

Stan, I have an extra DS-5 and cable I can part with if you are interested.

[JimmyJ]

Hey Stan,

A couple things...
First, what you read about the bass being "rewired" actually refers to the latest factory-installed noise-reducing "upgrade".  This is a valuable add-on as there is a long waiting list to have that done to older instruments which need it. 

Second, in one of these threads I think you said the bass came with a "splitter cable" - a stereo 1/4" plug on one end and two mono 1/4" plugs on the other?  Using that cable, can you confirm that the bass pickup signal is coming out of one of those mono plugs and the treble pickup is coming out of the other?  If that's the case your bass is still wired in the original way and that gives you several more options...
   A. If you have two separate amps you should try running in stereo.  It's pretty amazing!
   B. If your amp has two channels, or even two inputs into a single channel, you should be able to plug in both mono plugs and they will "sum" right there.
   C. Many of us have modified our instruments internally so a mono signal comes out of the 1/4" jack when we need it (and don't have our power supplies).  That is not a very difficult mod only requiring a couple resistors and moving a couple connections internally.  After that mod you can use any standard guitar cable.
   D. You can also make a special cable with these "summing resistors" in one of the plugs.  But like your "splitter cable" you would need to keep it with the bass at all times...

You'll notice none of my above options include a mixer but that's certainly another way to do it.  The MX400 needs a power supply so it might be an awkward option to carry around.  Just sayin'.

As Jazzyvee said, keep an eye out for a UK DS-5 as they do occasionally pop up.  But we are a relatively small family of users so the best way to spot one is to keep checking here in the forum.  [as you see by the latest post]  The reason Alembic gear is so expensive is because it is all built to the absolute highest possible spec.  Meant to be reliable and serviceable on professional tours traveling around the world.  It is in fact why your bass built over 40 years ago is still fully functional today. 

Keep playing that thing!
Jimmy J

[jazzyvee]

Referring to D above. 
My 1980 series bass came to me with a summing cable so internally my bass is still old standard. I should really look into doing the internal mod for convenience.
Out of curiousity, which part of the UK are you based. I’m in the West Midlands and there are a few other UK members here such as Jacko, Glynn, Geepee and his father Phil who is also an electronics expert.

[Stan Mansfield]

Thanks jonny,jimmyj and jazzyvee. jonny I am interested and have pm'd you. Jimmyj, the output is still stereo cos I get both pickups working separately with the split stereo cable to 2 mono's ... perfectly and into the MX400 which is tiny and I plan to use it with my wireless BOSS WL 20 (stereo out and in) so less leads and spaghetti. This will eliminate the split cable from the git. I've ordered a female stereo to 2 monos to go into the MX400 at the reciever end, pic to follow. I'm using a Mark Bass so only have 1 channel. However you could line in an effect on 1 channel pre mixer for a different sound, like the rics "ric-o-sound" set up. I didnt realise how unique these instruments were! It's very interesting. After years of P's and J's, Rics and rays and Warwicks I finally got one and intend to play it at each gig with one of my other git's. jazzyvee, I'm in the north west, Lancashire. I'd love to know how many of the series 1 type like this were manufactured? I've included some pics as requested.

[StephenR]

Do you have a Rick too, Stan?  There is a custom built "Alembic" DS5-R (rack mount) for sale in the Talk Bass classifieds which also has inputs for Rick-O-Sound. No cable with it but it would give you a lot of options for multiple basses, not just Alembics.

Pretty bass you have, must sound great and since it has the newer Alembic pickups it most likely has had the very desirable electronics upgrade. Some of the older Alembic are more prone to new sources of RF interference and the upgrade fixes that.

[pauldo]

Vibrant!  Thanks for the pictures, the book match on the front (and back) are beautiful.

[Stan Mansfield]

Am I right in saying when using a DS 5 you can only use one pick up? Bass or treble? I see there are 2 outputs on it, one for each. I thought it overcame this aspect so you could use both pickups as this is a terrific sound. Also, I guess they will not be for 240v here in the UK?