Author Topic: Loose pup screwsss  (Read 484 times)

BeenDown139

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Loose pup screwsss
« on: July 31, 2023, 07:30:33 PM »
ok this might be a problem.  picked up the mighty MKDeluxe to work on some songs from the new set list after a very vigorous workout yesterday.  i hear something rattling around in the body.  kinda sounds like the battery broke loose (i had just changed it yesterday).  odd.  it shouldnt be able to escape.  do a little more poking around and find that the bridge pickup is just about ready to fall off the bass.  it looks like the underneath screws were bottomed out, so i brought them up to snug the pickup up to its top screws.  this is the height the bridge pickup has always been. 

so here's the deal.  i bought this bass brand new from a reputable dealer 4 years ago.  i have never touched the pickup adjustment screws.  i've always thought the bridge pup looked kinda high.  but hey!  it's brand new.  right form the mothership. it's supposed to be that high.  right?

anybody ever have this happen?  i snugged everything up and the bass plays and sounds same as it ever was.   really don't need this at this point.  got a show coming up and backup fretted bass is the SII.  not hauling that to a dive bar on east colfax
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JimmyJ

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2023, 10:13:00 PM »
Yeah, this can happen now and then.  These screws are not locked into place by any mechanical means - no locking washers or anything.  They're just held in position by the (gentle) tension against the pickup.  Fine if they were not in any kind of vibrating situation but um, yeah, no.  So every now and then they can move. 

But were they really as low as in your picture?  That's harder to explain.  Are you a sleep-adjuster?  :D  I suppose there's a chance the bottom screws were never in the correct position and the pickup was suspended by it's edges in the hole and only held in place by the upper screws...  Your intense playing last night was enough to free it from it's clinging edges and fall down to the lower screws.  Just guessing.

I don't really think the pickup height is critical on our basses.  You should be able to put them at a height that doesn't interfere with your playing style and adjust the trimpots to get the balance you prefer.  Nice option thanks to our clever designers.

Jimmy J

BeenDown139

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2023, 02:51:12 AM »
thanx jimmy.
that's about the only thing i can think of.  and yes.  they were really that low.  my thought was that it never really got set up properly and it must've been fairy dust holding that pup in place.  i can't see string vibration suddenly moving both screws the same distance at the same time.

ive been playing this bass for almost 4 years and neverva problem until i stressed it at rehearsal in an actual playing situation.  nevrr had to do this before but i guess im gonna have to go over the instrument with a fine tooth come and make sure nothing else is flaky as well
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edwardofhuncote

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2023, 03:01:38 AM »
Failing everything else, take a trip down the fastener aisle at the hardware store for two screws an 1/8" longer... just get stainless steel so they match.

bigredbass

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2023, 02:11:27 PM »
139, it's an elegantly simple adjustment:

You'll need a phillips screwdriver that can reach through the 'empty' two holes to adjust the screws that are beneath the ears.

You can get a bigger one for the two screws on top of the ears.  So . . . .

Loosen the two on top (as your picture shows) to allow vertical travel.

Then reach through the two empty holes and raise or lower the pickup to suit.

Once you're there, just snug up the two holes on top, and I do mean SNUG, just 'finger tight' if you will.  Tighten them down HARD and there's a good chance you can snap them off.  Snug works just fine.

Generally, these are lower-output pickups and simply adjust the height to the best tone, clearance you may need for how hard you play, etc.  Then you can reach around the backside and adjust the relative mix or volume of the two with the little 'blue box' preamps inside the control cavity.

BeenDown139

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2023, 05:30:47 PM »
thanx for the help folks.  just got a chance to go thru the bass before practice. 
i always thought the bottom on this bass was a little thin.  i attributed it to the top wood.  since the pickup height is all jacked up now anyway, might as well give it the treatment all the used basses get, which is tweak it until i like it.  or sell it

so i did a quick pup height survey amonst the other basses and generally hanging on the rack i see about 4mm clearance between the top of hte pickup and bottom of the strings neck and brridge.  i measured the MK and the neck pup was 7mm below the strings and the bridge pup was ~3mm.  so i pulled out the screwdreiver, loosened all the pup screws and twiddled until i got a somewhat better bottom outta it and a better tonal difference between the two pups.  i wound up with 5mm for the neck and 4mm for the bridge which is roughly on  par with what i measured on an SII, essence and anneversary baass.

it's a pretty simple matter to remediate.  what irks me about this is that this is how it left the dealer's shop and arrived in my hands.  obtw the neck pup screws were all loose as well, why it hadn't shaken out outta its route is remarkable.  i'm really surprised that the screws hadn't dropped out of it into my lap in the intervening time.  when i pay  something north of $10k for a new instrument i pretty much expect it to show up with a factory setup and no loose hardware.  period.   had i found this earlier, i would've started at the dealer and worked my way up.

i'm pretty much done buying basses at this point.  but i can tell ya that's one more seller that's landed on my unapproved vendor list.  it's 2 deep now.
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BeenDown139

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2023, 07:31:19 PM »
ok now that i've had my medicine and counted to 10....

changing the pickup height to what my other basses look like was a total turnaround in this bass's tone and playability.  just gave it hard workout on the new set list.  nice focused well-defined bottom.  snappy highs.  not at all what it sounded like before.  much closer to the sound of my SII.

i've always been kinda on the fence with this bass because of its thin tone.  i figured it was set up by greater minds than mine so jacking around with it could only  take away from it.  but that was always offset by the comfort and playability and it's knockout looks.  sure wish it had showed up set up like this in the first place.
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JimmyJ

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2023, 10:09:59 PM »
Woah there, no reason to get mad at the vender about something like this.  You may have been the first one who ever really laid into the bass like you did the other night and that's what exposed this situation.  The way I see it, even when receiving a brand new custom build straight from the factory I'd still want to go through it and personalize all of the adjustable bits - like pickup height (and angle), nut, bridge, action, pickup balance, etc.  Gotta make it your own! 

The great result of your situation is that this oversight - by whoever forgot to raise the bottom screws of your bridge pickup - has led you to actually improve the tone of this bass!  That is a great result!  And now you may have to see if any of your other basses would benefit from some tweaking.  Good stuff!

Jimmy J

bigredbass

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2023, 12:19:11 AM »
The feature set built into most Alembics allows for a degree of personalization not approached by many other makes, and unless a dealer or reseller has done his homework and learned the ways of these things, your situation is sometimes common, yet so very easily remedied by the adjustability engineered into these axes.

Glad you're firing on all eight!

BeenDown139

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2023, 05:32:10 AM »
its all good.  got 2 silver linings outta this madcap adventure so ill get over my hissy fit and move on:

1) i now have a buckeye burl balance k bass that sounds remarkably like my series II 😎

2) at least it didn't happen at red rocks backstage on the ramp with the house lights going down as we're getting ready to open for big head todd 🙄
 hey!  what's that rattle? 🤯
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mica

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2023, 08:26:14 AM »
First, thank you to the lovely club members that were able to guide our friend through this pickup screw situation. Glad this was easily remedied. And while shipping (another source of vibration) can wiggle those screws into wonky positions, once your upper pickup screws started to loosen, the weight of the pickup in a playing position can coax them out further. They can wiggle up or down since they are machine screws.

One thing I can't imagine is what could support a pickup for four years if the lower screws were bottomed out from the start.

An important point here: pickup height can make a difference not only in playability but also in tone.  The hard thing is that it's difficult to discuss the difference in tone because it really changes depending on how you play and what strings you like. It's one of those things that you really have to drive there yourself to see if you need it different from the default. Also not everyone is sensitive to these changes, but most Alembic players are. 

Another very important point here: we do great set ups, but they may not be your favorite setup. For instance, there is not a standard for the pickup heights or even string heights. We set up the bass impossibly low, then raise the action a bit, than we know it can go lower, but it will be easier to play for most players, and especially for those who have never played an Alembic. The pickup height is normally bass pickup on the low side, treble on the high side, but there is no fixed measurement here. In fact, we fully expect that every player will change the pickup heights, truss rod tension and the bridge height immediately or at some point it the future.

pauldo

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2023, 02:50:18 PM »
Note to self:
Try fiddling with Distillate’s pickup heights.  Do this seated as 🤯 🫨 🤤 may ensue.


gtrguy

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2023, 09:32:10 AM »
I have found there is really a sweet spot for best tone based on pickup heights myself. Also, the closer they are to the strings, the more the magnetic field can pull on the string and lower the amount of sustain.

mica

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2023, 09:56:10 AM »
But also the closer they are the strings the less noise there is.

BeenDown139

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Re: Loose pup screwsss
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2023, 11:38:18 AM »
so i guess in some ways this was a rookie mistake for me.  if i hadn't liked the sound of the bass right outta the box, then i shoulda done something about it then.  i can say that the pickup height always looked screwy from day 1.  i had a lot of trepidation about fooling with the setup on this bass because it was a new bass and i didn't wanna break the seal.   figured it was already set up.  my mistake.  won't happen again.

the only other bass i've had to change the pickup height on was funnily enough a distillate-equipped bass.  had a koa top.  i wanted snappy sound.  i could get close to snappy with pickup height adjustment, but never really got there i think.    i found from that adventure that pickup height makes a huge difference in how the instrument sounds.  in this case i at least had a ready reference with my other basses whose pickup screws i've never had the desire to touch.

now....back to hte woodshed!
Been down...now i'm out!