Orion Bass Controls

[jazzyvee]

I should know this, but I just thought i would ask to be certain.
From the FAQ, "The bass and treble controls are asymmetrical, +6dB and -15dB, centered around 100Hz and 5KHz"

Am i right in thinking that when the bass and treble knobs are in the mid position, there is no additional tone added by the preamp if i just turn up the volume or operate the pan pot?
I'm just trying to understand why there "seems" to be more warm bottom end from my Orion in the flat position as compared to my standard Europa bass with the filter fully open.

My thoughts are that they should sound pretty similar, so i am wondering if the differences could be due to the set neck vs through neck and the tone block in the Europa or something else?

None of this is a problem at all just posing my curiousity whilst i am getting used to this lovely bass. :-)

[edited for formatting]

[edwardofhuncote]

I believe you are correct; the center detent in those rotary bass and treble boost/cut pots is -0-, or what we think of as flat. I'm guessing, (and you have to handicap my guesses heavily) that the difference in warmth you hear is a result of other variables.


The set neck. The layup of the neck. (wood) Pickup position. Draft angle. Just simply the inherent differences between two basses. I also wonder what effect on 'tone' there is when there is no filter to cut off at some point. Really splitting hairs there.

[cozmik_cowboy]

I believe you are correct; the center detent in those rotary bass and treble boost/cut pots is -0-, or what we think of as flat.

I am unversed on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if that mistaken, Greg.  I mean, Alembic's preamps (like the Fender tonestack they're based on) are flat at T-0, M-10, B-0.  A different center setting is not out of the question.

Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

That's a good point, Coz. And I don't remember exactly how it was described in conversation about my bass how the rotary bass and treble boost/cut function was set at rest at the detent. I do remember that they were asymmetrical though, as in; more cut available than boost. So it does seem odd that -0- flat is in the middle of the sweep. Perhaps the flat is theoretical... the center detent is just a reference point?  I dunno.


On a Distillate (or Europa or Rogue) the switch positions are called boost/flat/cut... so theres that. Totally different circuit though.

[jazzyvee]

I agree the preamp F2-b was inspired by the Fender Dual Showman amplifier with a tone circuit attributed to Tom Walker.  http://www.alembic.com/prod/f2b.html
I would, however, be surprised if the "on bass" tone controls are also be based on the same thing, but who knows?. It would good to know if the mid indent is indeed a "flat" setting or even if there is such a thing on that instrument.

[cozmik_cowboy]

Not saying they'd be identical, just that one can't assume that "center" "flat".
Mica?

Peter

[StephenR]

I seriously doubt the "flat" response of an Alembic with only the asymmetric boost/cut circuit and no filter is modeled after the "flat" tone of a Fender tonestack. To me the more interesting question would be whether there is a "baked-in" 8 dB peak anywhere in the frequency response like an Alembic that has a filter and no Q-switch. I am relatively certain that the center position on the asymmetric tone controls was designed so you hear the natural tone of the pickup before boosting or cutting at the center frequency of either the bass or treble.

[edwardofhuncote]

I'm pretty sure we've discussed this, or something like it before, but I can't remember what word to search, or what the topic was related to. Mica will remember and reply before I find it.

[jazzyvee]

I did a lot of searching before posting here but could not find anything.

[cntrabssn]

Hello,
I scanned this (see the link below) from an Orion product sheet. Sorry, I'm not real swift at adding links in-line. I think I got it as part of the "case candy" included with one of my basses. Anyway the frequency response graphs are shown. Though I haven't spent a lot of time on those basses, I always thought that circuit was one of best sounding onboard bass/treble types available. But I'm probably preaching to the choir here.
-nate.

[cozmik_cowboy]

no filter is modeled after the "flat" tone of a Fender tonestack.

Both of Alembic's preamps are modeled on the Fender tonestack (a Dual Showman's, to be exact), and have the same "flat" setting - at least according to Alembic.  And I was using that fact merely to suggest that assuming a "center = flat" setting may be in error.

Peter

[mica]

The detent is the flat position on the Orion circuit. This design is my dad's own, and he's in the process of revising it.

Note that a good bit of the difference in tone is going to be the difference of the set neck vs neck thru body tonality.

[jazzyvee]

Thanks Mica. I will be watching out for that revision. :-)