Buy, sell, play, or flip

[rv_bass]

Well, there has been a bit of communication about all of these endeavors, so I thought I would start a thread to accommodate civil discussion


Like a lot of people here I have owned and passed along a few Alembic’s.  The main reasons I have bought and sold is simply because you can’t just go down to your local store and try one out.  So, you have to buy it, determine if it is right for you, and either keep it or pass it on. In doing so I have found that Series instruments are the ones I like, and even further I have found that I prefer the older long scale instruments with wider necks over the newer ones. So it has been a great learning process.  I have now settled on a couple of basses and guitar that I really like.  Will I buy and possibly sell another Alembic, probably


When I sell an Alembic I post it on the club first to give club members a chance.  If there is no interest here then I will venture into the open online market, although I would prefer to avoid that. The fees on sites like Reverb (8.2% currently) require you to charge more, and even at that it is hard to simply break even due to  shipping (people are reluctant to pay more than $150 shipping when in reality it has cost me over $300 to safely pack and ship every bass that I have shipped across the US). And I have repaired or restored most of the instruments I have owned and sold, so breaking even is usually not the case in my experience. The online markets are a different place, with a different audience and objectives, but that’s what the creators of those online markets were aiming for (they are making money too), essentially a fee based open outcry market where buyers and sellers determine fair market value in that environment. Aggressive pursuit of instruments and pricing is an unfortunate byproduct of that environment (I receive low ball offers from all regions of the country every time I post an instrument on the online market places), which is annoying. So selling on the Club to help others try to acquire and experience these beautiful instruments is always my first preference, but it doesn’t always work out.

The custom guitar I recently sold was a beautiful instrument, but the neck was too narrow for me and I found that the way I pick, the pick would hit the center pickup and bounce off it causing me to miss strings (the pickup was as low as it could go).  I actually broke even on that one, which was my objective.  The medium scale bass that I bought the other day is beautiful, but unfortunately at 11 pounds my back says no.  It’s amazing how just a couple of pounds can make a big difference.  I assumed that I would have to pay more buying on Reverb, but the seller of that bass (Jon) worked with me to find a price that worked for me, which was reasonable considering today’s market and at least $1300 under the listed price. So things do work out now and then with the online markets. I’ll sell it at the same price to break even (hopefully).

At the club we strive to enable players (or collectors) to acquire the Alembic’s we all appreciate at fair value.   But the open online market is a different place with different objectives and I think that is just the reality of the situation.

So those are my thoughts…peace.

[gearhed289]

Funny you posted this, I've recently been thinking about how online selling has evolved over the years. 20 years ago, there were deals galore, and you could either find something to keep for cheap, or things to flip for a profit. But once there was blood in the water, the sharks came out. Fortunately, people have become more savvy, and it's obvious when something that recently sold for X-amount is the same one that just showed up at XX-amount. I think the days of making money flipping guitars online are over. I haven't done it to make money specifically, but rather to fine tune and upgrade my little collection.

The Club is a great place to buy and sell because it's like a little family. Back in the fall, I offered an Elan for what I had into it, and there was no interest. I put it on Reverb and ended up making money on the sale. Go figure! I had planned to offer my Distillate at the club, but I first mentioned it on a Facebook group, and it sold immediately. You just never know, especially with how weird the market got during Covid. It's nice that we look out for each other, and newbies as well.

[OJ Dorson]

I appreciate the perspective you've both shared. I don't have money to burn and I can't afford to be stuck with a bass that doesn't work for me. I can't afford costly hobbies so I try to make sure my bass habit breaks even.

Sometimes the only way to get hands-on experience with basses is to buy them to try them - especially when you're hunting for something with some age on it. In buying, I try to stay on the right side of the offer curve... I try to buy things for what they'd sell for if I needed to sell them quickly. If I see something I want priced high and not moving for a very long time, I'll offer the lower price at which I think it should fairly be priced. When it comes time to list on Reverb, I put it up enough to aim for break-even. I am *always* willing to break even on basses that aren't working for me, unless I got them incredibly favorably and then I *usually* put them up for fair/low market. If I got them cheap, it's likely because they needed restoration and I do as much of that work as I can. For example, I bought a '79 Ibanez Musician for $350 - it needed a full PLEK replane of the fingerboard and a refret AND I had to rebuild the preamp due to some failed capacitors and a dead IC. If it's something that I need to have listed but don't want to let go of, I may put it up high - that way, I'll find a buyer that wants it as much as I do and we usually talk and end up at a more fair price. That's how I lost my Series I and made a new best-bass-buddy out of @Thomasino. I *only* buy basses I *want* to love and sometimes I don't - that can't be helped.

I also buy to *learn*... there are some really cool and weird basses out there and I want to see how they're wired and how they're built. I may fall in love with them, but if not I want to sell them for a fair price so I can buy and learn about something else.

I buy and sell, but I don't pull profit out of someone else's pocket! To buy a bass *solely* with the intention of selling it for several thousand more is distasteful to me. To lowball and expect that other person to give you the bass at a steep discount just so you can take new pictures and immediately relist it for more... eww.

[hammer]

I think the main reason most of us buy and sell here is that, for the most part, this is a community of players and if a bass or guitar doesn't suit us, we hope we can support it landing in the hands of another player (for a reasonable price). One can argue today, however, whether anything out there is being sold at a reasonable price as evidenced by the recent Reverb posting asking $16,000 for a 93 Europa.


Personally, I've purchased more Alembics and Alembic clones (Shop Night Special, Hyak, Moonstone - w/ Alembic PUPs) than I've sold. When I have sold, however, I'm really only hoping to get my money back if I can be assured that the guitar is going to someone who will play it as opposed to a flipper or collector. And of course any sales have gone or are targeting at being used to acquire or refurbish another Alembic. 


However, I'm all for free trade and if someone wants to buy an Alembic and try to flip it for extra cash, I'm fine with that as long as they do not do it here on the Club. Trying to flip something through the club, at least IMHO, is unethical and the equivalent of allowing Guitar Center and Reverb to post on this site. We have long-standing members of this club (Will Gunn is an example) who while they sell guitars and basses for a living have specifically avoided posting here, which I have always viewed as a process based on their having a set of ethical values and respect for the Club. 


So...flipping on an online market is something that while I don't personally endorse really doesn't bother me. Flipping within the context of what I consider to be a supportive online community is an entirely different matter.

[fivestringdan]

I think the main reason most of us buy and sell here is that, for the most part, this is a community of players and if a bass or guitar doesn't suit us, we hope we can support it landing in the hands of another player (for a reasonable price). One can argue today, however, whether anything out there is being sold at a reasonable price as evidenced by the recent Reverb posting asking $16,000 for a 93 Europa.


Personally, I've purchased more Alembics and Alembic clones (Shop Night Special, Hyak, Moonstone - w/ Alembic PUPs) than I've sold. When I have sold, however, I'm really only hoping to get my money back if I can be assured that the guitar is going to someone who will play it as opposed to a flipper or collector. And of course any sales have gone or are targeting at being used to acquire or refurbish another Alembic. 


However, I'm all for free trade and if someone wants to buy an Alembic and try to flip it for extra cash, I'm fine with that as long as they do not do it here on the Club. Trying to flip something through the club, at least IMHO, is unethical and the equivalent of allowing Guitar Center and Reverb to post on this site. We have long-standing members of this club (Will Gunn is an example) who while they sell guitars and basses for a living have specifically avoided posting here, which I have always viewed as a process based on their having a set of ethical values and respect for the Club. 


So...flipping on an online market is something that while I don't personally endorse really doesn't bother me. Flipping within the context of what I consider to be a supportive online community is an entirely different matter.

Agreed!
BTW, I love your Europa! It's an absolute monster!

[hammer]

Glad you are enjoying it. While its a "monster" for you, it was a gremlin for me to play at 5'8" with short arms and small fingers. Did you ever figure out if the DS5 unit worked?


Brian

[fivestringdan]

Glad you are enjoying it. While its a "monster" for you, it was a gremlin for me to play at 5'8" with short arms and small fingers. Did you ever figure out if the DS5 unit worked?


Brian

Not yet, been gigging doing repairs and building. Now a friend is wanting me to sell part of his guitar collection..lol 30 guitars maybe? I have four guitars and one bass in the current batch that I'm trying to finish up and an additional bass neck for my P bass I built with Activators.

The bass fits me well for my size.

[pauldo]

The bass fits me well for my size.

Looks good on you, I appreciate the clip, that was cool.

Staying somewhat on topic.   
I sold my Alembic Exploiter (zebrawood) just before my divorce back 30 some years ago.  I do not even recall how... local newspaper classifieds???   I don’t have memory or documentation of its serial number.   I did NOT make any money on the sale, pretty sure I didn’t even break even.   I had my Distillate and realized as cool as the Exploiter was, it did not come close to comparing to the fit, feel, and function of my Distillate.  Letting her go wasn’t too hard.

I still miss her and always double check when someone posts anything about a zebrawood Exploiter here.  I DO know that one of the pickup ears (neck?) is cracked because at the time home computers weren’t a thing and I over tightened one of the (outside) screws adjusting pickup height. (crossing fingers that a lightbulb flashes in Gregory’s steel trap of a mind - just so I can view her again and know she is being loved) 

My Distillate suits me well, if ever I find fiscal nirvana I would love to add more Alembics.   Would certainly prioritize buying directly from a member here.

[hammer]

Couldn't agree with you more about buying from a member.  I've never been disappointed and have received some great deals from people here who want to see their old basses being played. I haven't experienced this in other forums that I frequent but as others have stated, this is a very special place that I hope we can keep that way.

[gtrguy]

Flipping may be annoying, but ask yourself how you would feel if you lived in a country where such freedom was against the law.

[edwardofhuncote]

I've said it before, all you have to do is get there first to starve the sharks. I can promise everyone here from firsthand experience, Rob would have sold that guitar to any Club Member who showed up first. And probably ate the shipping. I'd have bought it myself if I could play a guitar, but I'm wearing a hospital wristband and waiting for a phone call from the OR, so I don't need a guitar, I need a comfortable chair. Jon(ny) met his price, Rob broke even, and a deal is a deal so you can't shoot the duck for quacking.


You can however, point out the markup, and make them work for that flip. That goes for all Alembics we see, not just the ones that wind up in Colorado. Half the point of the Swap Shop was to track these things anyway... why shouldn't we point it out when one gets sold for X$ and immediately gets relisted at X$+25% ?

[OJ Dorson]

I've said it before, all you have to do is get there first to starve the sharks. I can promise everyone here from firsthand experience, Rob would have sold that guitar to any Club Member who showed up first. And probably ate the shipping. I'd have bought it myself if I could play a guitar, but I'm wearing a hospital wristband and waiting for a phone call from the OR, so I don't need a guitar, I need a comfortable chair. Jon(ny) met his price, Rob broke even, and a deal is a deal so you can't shoot the duck for quacking.


You can however, point out the markup, and make them work for that flip. That goes for all Alembics we see, not just the ones that wind up in Colorado. Half the point of the Swap Shop was to track these things anyway... why shouldn't we point it out when one gets sold for X$ and immediately gets relisted at X$+25% ?

There's a lot of sense in this reply!