Easing up to the drawing board

[chrisalembic]

Hi Ken,

"Does anything stand out in your memory as being significantly different between them (other than the more compact feel)?"


It has been over ten years since I owned this bass so its a faint memory. Sonically I would say there wasnt a huge difference though the short scale "behaves" a little differently than the medium scale, at least in my experience. Id say the best scenario would be to try out a short scale alembic before committing to a custom order. Personally I prefer the feel of medium or long scale and necks with more substance. But I have long arms and big hands. The 3/4 Soiler felt almost too small for me. But then again look at Stanley Clarke ;-) Its all very personal.   


*** ups just saw that you do have a SC Short Scale? Sorry still quite early here and i didnt read through everything ;-) Well then you know the difference first hand. In regards to balance I think its all about how long the upper horn is, how far the bridge extents into the body and location of strap locks. I would always prefer a bass with a longer upper horn. Less reach, less "neck dive", and the ability to balance the bass anywhere between 1 and 3 oclock. The 3/4 Spoiler was easier to handle on the strap playing standing up than the regular size Spoiler.

[ScorpianS]

I don’t know about the experiences of others but my 3/4 Signature medium scale custom (top and back are crotch walnut) hangs at about 1:30 to 2:00. I can hang it a lot lower and in a more traditional position than my short scale SC body basses. With those, it’s a much higher position with the body tucked where to buy phenq under the right arm.  Totally different than my Signature. I don’t have any experience with a Darling body but while it is a short scale, the body shape would suggest to me that it would balance differently than an SC.

Since I switched out the strap buttons I've been using the same strap for the SC as I use for the Spoiler.  I have it set for the shortest possible length (it's a center pad with adjustable tails from the front and back).  The SC sits up very high just like you described.  I guess the Spoiler is a couple of inches lower overall due to having the strap button on the upper horn, but it also hangs about 2:00 or 2:30.

Just for fun I grabbed an old G&L SB-1 off the wall and put a capo at the second fret to get a 30.75" scale.  This bass has a body that's noticeably narrower than something like a P or J, but with a similar upper horn length.  It also has the bridge right at the end of the body like I'm planning on the custom.  That geometry created a whole different balance and feel.  I imagine that's about how a short scale Essence would be.  Distinctly not like the Spoiler, but probably something I would grow to love over time.

Ken

Good to know about your SC. It would be great if you share some pictures of it.

[Spoilers!]

Two months later, and I'm continuing to inch closer to a custom build.  No major breakthroughs on body style in that time, but the discussion today about 75-150 gave me a big nudge on materials.  Here are a couple of quotes from a 2004 thread on 75-150, which Poor Nigel estimated to weigh about 7.5 pounds:

Hey Tom.  The neck is a reversed walnut with maple laminates.

<snip>

Hi Mike.  Walnut beauty?  The body is Koa with a birch core.  The neck is walnut, and it is a beauty.

The Walnut neck and Koa laminates are probably the biggest contributors to 
light weight, at least compared to other Alembics. The Walnut looks like 
California Claro walnut, not the more dense Black Walnut to me, but you 
really can't tell just from looking (unless you're looking at a 
sample under magnification). 
 
The thinness of the neck will also be a factor in the weight reduction. Some 
of those old fingerboards are really thin! But I guess it works--this one's 
close to 30 years old. 
 

I've unexpectedly ended up with a short scale Series I with a small standard body (#80-1711 - thanks again Rob!).  That has me rethinking electronics options, but I am pretty much down to a body decision between small standard or 3/4 Spoiler.  I've been switching between 80-1711 and my fretless Spoiler (full size) at band practices.  I love them both, so the body style might ultimately come down to a coin toss.  80-1711 has me rethinking neck profiles, as I'm really settling in to the 1 5/8" comfort taper compared to the 1 3/4" nuts on my Spoilers.

Here's how the build is shaping up so far:

- Neck recipe: Short scale (30.75"), "reversed" 5-piece (walnut with maple laminates), TBD classic vs. comfort taper

- Body: TBD small standard vs. 3/4 Spoiler, core possibly birch or similar density wood, top/back wood TBD

- Electronics: TBD, but leaning toward Series I or Anniversary with Series prep.  Neck pickup up close to the fingerboard.

- Fingerboard: Fretless ebony

- Headstock: Beveled edges, probably crown shape.

I'm posting this now mostly just to avoid losing track of the info on 75-150, but I'd welcome any feedback or suggestions!

Ken

[hammer]

Keep in mind that if you are going the Series route as far as electronics, your bass is going to be a good deal heavier hanging off your shoulders than a non-series bass. As the owner of both series and non-series basses, I would say that unless you plan on playing in stereo mode most of the time including during live performances, you can get pretty much any tone out of a non-series Alembic than you can out of a series bass if you are running the former through an Alembic Superfilter (SF-1). So if weight is a real issue for you, keep in mind that series electronics and the shere size of a bass that fits them will make a difference in weight.


 

[JimmyJ]

Brian, I don't think the Series electronics package is what adds the weight.  But maybe fitting it actually requires a larger body?  Or brass plates instead of some other material?  I'm not sure.  Yes, it includes a second 9V battery, but that also means more wood has been routed out so I wonder what weighs more?

I would think the biggest factor effecting weight would be the combination of woods you choose.  Once Ken starts talking details with Mica she can sort him out on all these details.  Have you long list of questions ready! 

I for one am an advocate for the Series electronics package but that's only because I've been stuck on it for over 40 years.  HA!!  It does come with certain complications - the external power supply being the most obvious.  But it is IMO still the most amazing onboard preamp system ever devised.

Jimmy J

[StephenR]

I can hear a difference between the Activator pickups themselves and the Series pickups. To my ears the Seiries pickups have a rounder, slightly deeper and more open sound. That said I have never heard a bad sounding Alembic pickup or electronics package, any choice will be sonically top-notch.

Interested to see your final decisions on a build. My somewhat useless opinion would be to skip a Signature package with Series prep. Mainly because you would have to send the bass back for the conversion and the time it would take. There is currently a wait for conversions and Series upgrades no telling if it will abate in the future. If you go with Series electronics you will have the full attention of the shop during your build, once it is finished you can just play it as long as you want without looking back. Signature or Series are both excellent choices, we are lucky to have so many amazing choices available to choose from.

[Spoilers!]

Thank you all for the feedback!

I remember reading somewhere (I believe it was a post by Mica) that on a Series II the electronics alone weigh about two pounds.  I'm not sure how much of an increase that is over any of the non-Series options, but I will definitely need to factor that in.  I was seriously thinking early on about doing a fretless, 3/4 version of my Persuader.  That single AXY gets me to a very happy place tone-wise, even without a Q switch.  There's no way to go lighter than that on back and shoulder, but I'm afraid I'd end up regretting the extra bit of shaping a second pickup brings.  I figure I'll wait until all of the other build details are settling into place and then come to a decision on the electronics.

I'm realizing now that the thicker body needed for a Series bass might give a very different feeling than my Spoilers and Persuader.  I definitely notice the difference in thickness between my 80-1711 and my SC.  I believe the SC is even a hair thicker than the Spoilers.  I wonder if Anniversary electronics can fit in the thinner Spoiler body.

As I think more about the reversed five-piece neck with walnut and maple, I'm starting to picture a cross between a Spoiler and a Brown Bass.  Depending on how the weight would work out, a 3/4 Spoiler with the reversed neck and some combination of walnut and myrtle for the body or maybe walnut and birch.  I could be happy either way if it minimizes weight.

Ken

[adriaan]

Are you perhaps thinking of something like the Inside-Out Brown Bass wood recipe? Very tasty.

[Spoilers!]

Are you perhaps thinking of something like the Inside-Out Brown Bass wood recipe? Very tasty.

Yes, that is what I'm thinking.  The references I've checked point to Claro walnut and myrtle having about the same density.  I might have a tough choice deciding which to put on the top.

Ken

[Spoilers!]

So I've thought about this a lot more and finally decided it was time to reach out to Alembic.  Mica gave me quite a bit to think about regarding what's best for my sonic preferences , how we can realistically minimize weight, and how we can minimize stress on my left shoulder while I'm playing.

Minimizing stress on my shoulder should be pretty simple.  Part is limiting the weight, which I'll mention next.  The other part will be minimizing how far out and up I need to reach my left hand as I'm playing.  I've been rotating between my different Alembics for band practices and gigs and getting (unflattering) photos when I'm just focused on playing the music.  When I have the  32" scale Spoiler at the best height and angle, my left elbow is right against my ribs it I'm at about fret #7 or higher and not too far out when I finger lower notes.  A short scale neck would bring the low notes in even closer.  That's as relaxed as I'm going to be able to get my shoulder, so a Spoiler body style it will be.  That also works for me aesthetically.  The newer designs like Essences and Darlings are beautiful, but Spoilers are more my speed.

There are gong to be a lot of decisions to make on minimizing weight.  First will be taking the body down to the old 3/4 Spoiler template.  That won't take the dimensions down quite as small as an Essence, but it won't be vastly different.  I love the look, and I'm good with that weight trade-off to stick with the Spoiler style.  Mica suggested mahogany as the primary neck laminates, instead of the walnut "reversed" neck.  That's based on weight as well as my sonic preferences.  The other laminates are still to be decided, but she has me listening to some recordings and thinking about adding an ebony stringer.  The pros would be getting the tone down deep where I prefer it, and maximizing sustain.  The cons would be cost and a slight increase in weight.  I was thinking about a sustain block even though it would add weight; Mica mentioned the possibility of doing it in aluminum or even a dense wood.  That will probably just be a future decision on which material to use.  I've never had a bass with LEDs, so I won't miss them.  Losing the LED battery's weight will offset adding the sustain block.  We'll shoot for a neck profile similar to my '82 Spoilers with some wood removed at the neck heel, and shed an ounce or two there.  Lightweight tuners will round things out.

I had asked about the possibility of a relatively thin, solid koa body like my Spoilers if I could source the lumber locally.  In the interest of weight reduction we're leaning toward a sandwich body with hollow wings instead.  The options are still wide open on choice of woods, but a koa/koa/koa sandwich is at the top of the list.

Electronics are totally up in the air at this point.  When I mentioned that early on I had been thinking about a single AXY like my Persuader, Mica gave some very positive thoughts about the simplicity and tone of a single pickup design.  I'm just not sure whether I would miss being able to add a little bit of bridge pickup in like I do with my Series 1.  So maybe a single AXY with Q switch, maybe Anniversary, who know at this point.  Another Series 1 isn't entirely off the table, as Mica says that can now work with any body thickness and won't add appreciable weight.

Here's the recap.  Bold font is a definite:

- Short scale (30.75")
- Custom neck laminations (likely mahogany with birch or maple)
- Fretless ebony board
- 3/4 Spoiler body shape
- Hopefully body thickness similar to early production koa Spoilers, or as thin as they can get it
- Beveled head stock
- Head stock shape (probably small crown, like on a Darling)
- Body wood or sandwich TBD (possibly koa/koa/koa)
- Hollow body wings for weight relief
- Electronics TBD (possibly single AXY or Anniversary)
- Probably no LEDs (to save battery weight, plus I've never used them before anyway)
- Sustain block (possibly aluminum or hardwood to reduce weight compared to brass)
- Wood/brass tailpiece (to reduce weight compared to solid brass)

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated!  Anybody have experience out there I could learn from?

Thanks!

Ken

[Spoilers!]

Brian, I don't think the Series electronics package is what adds the weight.  But maybe fitting it actually requires a larger body?  Or brass plates instead of some other material?  I'm not sure.  Yes, it includes a second 9V battery, but that also means more wood has been routed out so I wonder what weighs more?

Hi Jimmy,

Mica told me that a Series One package no longer requires a thicker body or adds significant weight.  I think she said it can go into any production body style now.

When we talked LEDs, she mentioned the battery weighing slightly more than most wood.

She also suggested that I ask about your experience with alternate materials for sustain blocks.  I would love to hear any thoughts you have on that.

Ken

[JimmyJ]

Hey Ken,

We're all excited to be following your build here and hope you can get it underway soon.  You need to be playing this thing!

My first 5-string way WAY back in 1976 had an issue with not quite being able to move the bridge saddle far enough down to properly intonate the B-string.  Even though that string didn't have a very useable sound up high on the neck... My dad was a bass player but also a piano technician and had a great shop in our basement.  We decided we'd try to make a new bridge block and relocate the bridge mounting screws to get a bit more travel out of the saddles.  He didn't have any big chunks of brass laying around but did have a large block of aluminum so that's what we used.

I loved the sound of that bass (sadly lost in 1987) so my 3 current Series fretted basses were all built to the same specs, including aluminum blocks.

The thing is - I'm sorry to say I can't describe the difference between using brass or aluminum.  I can't remember how, or even if, it noticeably changed the sound of the bass.  Sorry about that, not much help in your decision making.   

The last thing I want to say is - it's thrilling to put together a built-to-order Alembic and to realize they can literally do anything you can dream up.  Mica continues to give you great advice all along your journey but it's time to get that thing into production!!  C'mon now!  We want to hear you play it!

Jimmy J

[Spoilers!]

Hi Jimmy,

Thank you for the info and also for the nudge forward.  I actually do have a gear sell-off happening to fund the custom, and that is hopefully going to be a done deal within the next couple of days.  Then I will be nailing down the order with a dealer in the next week or two and onward to a hopefully not-too-long wait with the Mothership.

I am sweating out details, but just because I want this to be the bass that I "ride off into the sunset".  I know that however this turns out will be an amazing instrument.  I'm a "measure twice, cut once" kind of guy I guess.  Or maybe "measure twice, then twice more, then cut" would be more accurate.

Anyway, thanks again for all of the feedback.  Without no dealerships within 500 miles to check out Alembics in person, it's been very helpful getting insight and ideas from the forum.  Now I think I'm down to just figuring out the electronics, and the rest will be pure aesthetics.

Ken

[Spoilers!]

The dreaming is over and the waiting has begun.

Hopefully this will end up being about the lightest an Alembic can be.  The neck will be five piece with mahogany and walnut laminates.  The body will be a redwood/mahogany/redwood sandwich with hollow construction and the lightest mahogany they can source.  It'll have the small Spoiler body and a small crown headstock.

I ended up going with signature electronics, with a Fatboy in the bridge position and the neck AXY moved up close to the fingerboard (like on my '82/'83 Spoilers).  Q switches will be upgraded to three-ways.

I decided to go with LEDs since they were part of the monthly special.  Might as well.  To avoid the battery weight I'm adding a five-pin connector as the only way to power the LEDs.  That gets rid of four batteries, and the wood that would have been around the battery compartment goes away.  Using the DS-5 also makes dying batteries a non-issue.

The one thing I wasn't able to get was blackened hardware.  That's off the menu due to supplier issues.  Oh well, the brass hardware doesn't look bad on any of my other Alembics...

Thanks again guys for all of the input along the way.  Hopefully I can get a factory-to-customer thread going in case anybody is interested in the build.

Ken

Ken

[rv_bass]

Congratulations on getting it going! The wood choices and extra hollow construction should have a nice sound. The light weight will be nice and woods should be beautiful as well